Swine Flu/H1N1 Vaccination - Yes or No?

[macky]

I am a registered nurse and refuse to get the vaccine for seasonal flu and H1N1 for myself and my family.
I have always been opposed to the seasonal flu shot and I have always believed that "getting the real flu will build your immune system much better then just taking the shot.", as stated before in this thread.
I personally know several people that have had H1N1 flu and from what I have been told it was the most mild flu experience these people have ever had. If you have had the flu this season you have more than likely had H1N1.
You do not take antibiotics for the flu as it is a virus. So, if you have been terribly ill and have been prescribed antibiotics it is not the flu or is a combination of the flu and something else.
If you want to stay healthy in the winter take vitamin D and C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15ycdbSsnAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NqqB2nhBE

Doctors and Health Professionals Warning Citizens NOT To Take Swine Flu Vaccine - Very Dangerous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s2Aq1ZbXtw

Some info from 60 minutes about the swine flu of 1976.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/670.html

Do NOT Let Your Child Get Flu Vaccine -- 9 Reasons Why
from http://www.mercola.com/
1.The swine flu is simply another flu. It is not unusually deadly.
2.This is the first time both seasonal and pandemic flu vaccines will be administered. Both seasonal flu and swine flu vaccines will require two inoculations. This is because single inoculations have failed to produce sufficient antibodies. This is an admission that prior flu vaccines were virtually useless. Can you trust them this time?
3. Adjuvants are added to vaccines to boost production of antibodies but may trigger autoimmune reactions. Some adjuvants are mercury (thimerosal), aluminum and squalene. Why would you sign a consent form for your children to be injected with mercury, which is even more brain-toxic than lead?
4.This is the first year mock vaccines have been used to gain FDA approval. The vaccines that have been tested are not the same vaccines your children will be given.
5.Over-vaccination is a common practice now in America. American children are subjected to 29 vaccines by the age of two. Meanwhile, veterinarians have backed off of repeat vaccination in dogs because of observed side effects.
6.Modern medicine has no explanation for autism, despite its continued rise in prevalence. Yet autism is not reported among Amish children who go unvaccinated.
7.Researchers are warning that over-use of the flu vaccine and anti-flu drugs like Tamiflu and Relenza can apply genetic pressure on flu viruses and then they are more likely to mutate into a more deadly strain.
8.Most seasonal influenza A (H1N1) virus strains tested from the United States and other countries are now resistant to Tamiflu (oseltamivir). Tamiflu has become a nearly worthless drug against seasonal flu.According to data provided by the Centers for Disease Control, among 1148 seasonal flu samples tested, 1143 (99.6%) were resistant to Tamiflu!
9.Public health officials are irresponsible in their omission of any ways to strengthen immunity against the flu. No options outside of problematic vaccines and anti-flu drugs are offered, despite the fact there is strong evidence that vitamins C and D activate the immune system and the trace mineral selenium prevents the worst form of the disease.

Good luck.

[intarsiabox]

My wife is a nurse who works in hospital and she knows nothing more about H1N1 vaccinations than anyone else in the general public. She had to get all of her info the same way everyone else does. Just because someone is in the medical field doesn't mean they are research scientists or are vaccine experts by any means. Medical doctors prescribe the drugs and nurses administer it, they don't develop it.

[wickedfrags]

Agreed, I have been answering questions from over 1200 nurses, physicians, residents, staff and students over the past 4 days. While some are more knowledgeable that others, the level of knowledge among those in the health care field varies greatly (not surprisingly).

What is interesting is learning why health care professionals people decide to take the shot and why they feel it is not necessary.

From a professional perspective, I feel there is no good, responsible reason for a front line health care worker to not get the shot given the high risk nature of the service they provide.

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

My wife is a nurse who works in hospital and she knows nothing more about H1N1 vaccinations than anyone else in the general public. She had to get all of her info the same way everyone else does. Just because someone is in the medical field doesn't mean they are research scientists or are vaccine experts by any means. Medical doctors prescribe the drugs and nurses administer it, they don't develop it.

[macky]

I disagree. Here a lot of good reason why not to get the vaccine.
H1N1 Vaccine ingredients:

aluminum hydroxide
aluminum phosphate
ammonium sulfate
amphotericin B
animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
dog kidney, monkey kidney,
chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
calf (bovine) serum
betapropiolactone
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
formalin
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
hydrolized gelatin
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
neomycin
neomycin sulfate
phenol20red indicator
phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
potassium diphosphate
potassium monophosphate
polymyxin B
polysorbate 20
polysorbate 80
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
residual MRC5 proteins
sorbitol
sucrose
thimerosal (mercury)
tri(n)butylphosphat e,
VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
washed sheep red blood cells

Just because some of us are healthcare workers doesn't mean that we should have all this **** injected in our bodies. There is virtually no evidence that vaccines work in the first place.

[Ron99]

HOLY CRAP PEOPLE. STOP BEING STUPID!!!

Sorry to yell and be rude but honestly, use your heads. Most of the stuff below is not in the vaccine and I have no idea where you come up with lists like that. The ingredients in the vaccine are clearly listed on GSKs documentation that has been linked to at least twice in this thread.

And where the hell do you come to the conclusion that there is no evidence that vaccines work? Really? You actually believe that? I suppose we are all dropping dead of small pox? How many cases of the mumps are seen nowadays? In case you don't know the incidence has dropped 99% since routine vaccination started. Seriously. If you want to make comments like that then you have to provide some links to actual evidence it is true. You have all been provided links to actual information that you can check yourself. But you would rather believe a youtube video made at a holistic medicine conference that contains nothing but a bunch of sound bites and no actual information. Who are these people in the video? Let's see their credentials? What is their area of expertise? Are they experts in virology and immunology? If I made a video telling you that you should't eat spinach because it's bad for you and will do more harm then good will you believe me? Or maybe I believe that to much calcium in your system may cause cardiac problems and if you don't want your fish to die you better remove all calcium from your tank water or they might have heart attacks? You'll all just take my word for it right? If you have actual evidence or data supporting any of the nonsense in this thread then please produce it.

Sorry, but this hysteria and completely wrong information is really annoying me. I am all for legitimate debate with actual data and information. Not a bunch of completely incorrect nonsense that has no basis in reality.

Originally Posted by macky

I disagree. Here a lot of good reason why not to get the vaccine.
H1N1 Vaccine ingredients:

aluminum hydroxide
aluminum phosphate
ammonium sulfate
amphotericin B
animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
dog kidney, monkey kidney,
chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
calf (bovine) serum
betapropiolactone
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
formalin
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
hydrolized gelatin
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
neomycin
neomycin sulfate
phenol20red indicator
phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
potassium diphosphate
potassium monophosphate
polymyxin B
polysorbate 20
polysorbate 80
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
residual MRC5 proteins
sorbitol
sucrose
thimerosal (mercury)
tri(n)butylphosphat e,
VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
washed sheep red blood cells

Just because some of us are healthcare workers doesn't mean that we should have all this **** injected in our bodies. There is virtually no evidence that vaccines work in the first place.

[macky]

Last thing from me on this subject. I have many friends and acquaintances that have not vaccinated their children, all of which are doctors and nurses in Canada and the USA. I have 15 years of acute care hospital nursing experience, 5 years in the USA. If that fact doesn't make you think twice about vaccines, you are stupid. Go get the vaccine. OK. I am out of this one.

[sphelps]

All I know is the health care and pharmaceutical industries are profitable industries and driven by the same motives as pretty much every other industry. For this reason I wouldn't trust them anymore than most other industries out there so I do my own research and come up with my own conclusions which is something we should all do.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by macky

Last thing from me on this subject. I have many friends and acquaintances that have not vaccinated their children, all of which are doctors and nurses in Canada and the USA. I have 15 years of acute care hospital nursing experience, 5 years in the USA. If that fact doesn't make you think twice about vaccines, you are stupid. Go get the vaccine. OK. I am out of this one.

Sorry to sound harsh, but so what? What is your knowledge and experience in virology, epidemiology, immunology and pharmaceutical sciences? I have found many instances of knowing more than doctors and nurses do on various subjects. That's not a jab but reality. Science and medicine is an incredibly complex and extensive area and there is no way one person can be an expert on all things. As primary health care workers your focus is generally on patient care and not on understanding the minutiae of the science behind all the various the treatments.

The list you posted is grossly inaccurate and incredibly misleading. Most of those substances are not part of the H1N1 vaccine. Not even close. You obviously don't understand alot of this as most lay persons don't. So let me give you a small science lesson. Let's use the mercury issue as an example. See the following diagram:



Now notice the very different structures of these molecules. Do you think they will all have the same effects in your body? No, they don't. Most pharmacological and toxicological effects are due to the molecule/drug/poison acting on one or more specific receptors in your body. It is like a lock and key and the active molecule (called a ligand) binds to the receptor and activates some process. Now if you imagine the three molecules above as keys do you think they will fit in the same lock?

Also, elimination from your body is also dependent on the structures of these molecules. Comparing methylmercury and thimerosal is a great example of this. The carbon hydrogen bonds in methylmercury make it very fat soluble. That means it gets into fatty tissue and fat deposits and sticks around in there. This is why you get bioaccumulation of methyl mercury in fish which is then passed on to humans when we eat them. Now look at thimerosal. The oxygen molecules make thimerosal much more soluble in water then fat so it stays in your blood stream more readily and is filtered out by you kidneys and you pee it away. Just because a molecule contains a mercury atom in it does not automatically mean it is toxic and will behave the same way other mercury containing molecule will behave.

This is the crux of my problem with this thread. Most of the opinions posted here are just opinions based on incomplete or plain incorrect information. I encourage everybody to ask questions and try to find answers if they have concerns. But look for those answers from reputable sources or knowledgeable people. Ask for actual data or facts to back up those answers. Not just, oh my doctor told me not to. Did you ask your doctor for the reasons for that opinion? Not a bunch of random crap from the internet.

Originally Posted by sphelps

All I know is the health care and pharmaceutical industries are profitable industries and driven by the same motives as pretty much every other industry. For this reason I wouldn't trust them anymore than most other industries out there so I do my own research and come up with my own conclusions which is something we should all do.

Nobody is disputing that the pharmaceutical industry is not trying to make money. That doesn't mean they are evil or lying. Most people I know in the pharma industry are actually interested in discovering new drugs to treat diseases and make the world better. They do have shareholders and investors to answer to as well so they need to make money in the process. Do you have any idea how much it costs in time and money to develop a new drug? The numbers are larger then anything the vast majority of us will ever see. Regardless, they are also incredibly well regulated. You can't just put whatever you want in a vaccine and then start selling it. You have to account for every component and the safety of each of those components and have to show both animal and human trial results.

[sphelps]

I actually have one more thing to add which is that I find the results from the poll to be quite interesting.

The way I see it as of right now 21 (10%) people are undecided, 81 (40%) people are for the flu shot and 102 (50%) are against it.

This seems about average, half and half on each side of the argument however I always like to consider the Milgram Experiment in these types of polls because the media and majority of health care are pushing for one side of the argument. Many of us consider the information provided by both these sources to be accurate so in a way we look at these sources as a type of authority. The Milgram Experiment demonstrated that the presence of an authority figure dramatically increased compliance to the point where over 50% of people will do what they are told by such an authority figure even if it means harming other people.

This combined with less than 50% of people voting in favor of the vaccine is what I find interesting. I'm not saying what my personal conclusions are exactly, I'm just saying it's interesting.

[Samw]

Originally Posted by sphelps

I actually have one more thing to add which is that I find the results from the poll to be quite interesting.

The way I see it as of right now 21 (10%) people are undecided, 81 (40%) people are for the flu shot and 102 (50%) are against it.

Only 69 said YES, not 81. 12 people already had H1N1 so they won't need the shot. OK, I suppose its fair to assume those people would vote YES.