quietest return pump

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Food for thought: I design and manufacture load cells and weighing systems yet I personally don't use any of them. If I was looking for advice on anything regarding it's installation and real life performance I'd ask the people using them.

Please tell me you are kidding, you design something and sell something that you would ask the end user about because you don't know?

My granny has an Audi, she bought it on their 24 Le mans performance, not because it comes in a nice pearl white shade, they don't ask her to drive it around the track and ask for input.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

Please tell me you are kidding, you design something and sell something that you would ask the end user about because you don't know?

My granny has an Audi, she bought it on their 24 Le mans performance, not because it comes in a nice pearl white shade, they don't ask her to drive it around the track and ask for input.

Sorry but that's real life, we can do all kinds of tests but they will always be based on laboratory conditions. Most companies and people would call that good enough and act like they know everything. However some companies go the extra mine and provide perks to qualified customers in return for valuable feedback which provides more information for more accurate specifications and further advancement. Also I may design one component for a crane or power plant but I'm no expert on cranes or power plants.

I was only suggesting that the manufacturer isn't always the best source for certain information, I didn't say your grandma was either but I can assure you someone drove that car around the track and it wasn't the manufacturer.

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Also I may design one component for a crane or power plant but I'm no expert on cranes or power plants.

I was only suggesting that the manufacturer isn't always the best source for certain information, I didn't say your grandma was either but I can assure you someone drove that car around the track and it wasn't the manufacturer.

Considering that we typically call the manufacturer if we need information I would hope that they have enough experience, or feedback to reliably answer my questions, yet you choose to ignore their recommendations or at least fluff them off.

I will advise my granny to stay away from cranes and power plants.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

Considering that we typically call the manufacturer if we need information I would hope that they have enough experience, or feedback to reliably answer my questions, yet you choose to ignore their recommendations or at least fluff them off.

I will advise my granny to stay away from cranes and power plants.

Now you're just being silly, trying to twist words to your liking. First of all it was "food for thought" which means something to think about, but you chose to bring the whole thread off topic in an attempt to find holes in something that doesn't have any. Second that's not what I said at all, but I did say the exact opposite.
Maybe, just maybe a skimmer manufacturer doesn't know what size return pump you should run on your tank, that's all I was saying from the start. After all they don't usually make return pumps or full aquarium systems but rather a single component. Plus it seems some people already disagree with the ratings provided by such manufacturers, so why would you think they would be experts on other components?

Originally Posted by Mr OM

If you ask a reputable skimmer mfg they will tell you to use a sump pump of the same value as the skimmers capacity, ie if you purchase a skimmer for a 400 gallon system it performs at its best at 400 gph passing across it, any more and its performance will be depleted. The 10 times turnover rate isn't correct if the tank is skimmed properly.

Originally Posted by Mr OM

BK will tell you in a heartbeat that you can overdo skimming by buying a unit that is oversize, it simply doesn't work, or should I say doesn't work properly.

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Now you're just being silly, trying to twist words to your liking. First of all it was "food for thought" which means something to think about, but you chose to bring the whole thread off topic in an attempt to find holes in something that doesn't have any. Second that's not what I said at all, but I did say the exact opposite.
Maybe, just maybe a skimmer manufacturer doesn't know what size return pump you should run on your tank, that's all I was saying from the start. After all they don't usually make return pumps or full aquarium systems but rather a single component. Plus it seems some people already disagree with the ratings provided by such manufacturers, so why would you think they would be experts on other components?

The OP requested a quiet return pump, I asked what was the reason for such a large amount of flow(read noisy).and backed up the statement regarding what the skimmer mfg suggested the ideal pump size would be.

Your answer was that the manufacturer was no expert, you continue to push high sump turnover rates and consequently ignore the manufactures suggestions, if the OP used a pump of the correct size he would not have the noise issue he is getting nor an expensive bill to purchase or operate such a large pump as you are suggesting.




,

[mr.wilson]

Red Dragon pumps are quiet, but not worth paying $900 for. It's a $10 wholesale Laguna pond pump with a custom volute (shroud & impeller).

They fall short on pressure, but would work fine for a sump return. The motor is designed to be water cooled, so you may have excessive heat transfer and subsequently a shorter pump life.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

The OP requested a quiet return pump, I asked what was the reason for such a large amount of flow(read noisy).and backed up the statement regarding what the skimmer mfg suggested the ideal pump size would be.

Your answer was that the manufacturer was no expert, you continue to push high sump turnover rates and consequently ignore the manufactures suggestions, if the OP used a pump of the correct size he would not have the noise issue he is getting nor an expensive bill to purchase or operate such a large pump as you are suggesting.

That's just it, the guy wanted a quiet return pump with a given flow and price was no object. I didn't push high flow, it was already requested. I never said low flow was a bad thing but rather advantages exist for both so it comes down to personal preference. If anyone is pushing it's you dude, not me. I don't know why you're making this personal.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

Red Dragon pumps are quiet, but not worth paying $900 for. It's a $10 wholesale Laguna pond pump with a custom volute (shroud & impeller).

They fall short on pressure, but would work fine for a sump return. The motor is designed to be water cooled, so you may have excessive heat transfer and subsequently a shorter pump life.

While the motors are made by Hagen, they are made specifically for RD, they are not standard Laguna pumps, they just have the same motor housings for obvious reasons. All that custom stuff is what you're paying for; they put in things that other pumps simply don't have like carbide bearings, titanium shafts, de-liming bypass (which reduces heat and lime build up on impeller), and high efficiency motors. Last time I checked water cooled was better than air cooled and these pumps certainly don't run hot, at least 50 degrees cooler than the Darts I previously owned. In addition these pumps can be run internal which no other pump of the same flow rating can do.

It's certainly not cheap but it's not a rip off either, if someone could make these for what some assume, I assure there would be a few more competitors on the market. These pumps are not for everyone but for some the extra money is justified.

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by sphelps

While the motors are made by Hagen, they are made specifically for RD, they are not standard Laguna pumps, they just have the same motor housings for obvious reasons. All that custom stuff is what you're paying for; they put in things that other pumps simply don't have like carbide bearings, titanium shafts, de-liming bypass (which reduces heat and lime build up on impeller), and high efficiency motors. Last time I checked water cooled was better than air cooled and these pumps certainly don't run hot, at least 50 degrees cooler than the Darts I previously owned. In addition these pumps can be run internal which no other pump of the same flow rating can do.

It's certainly not cheap but it's not a rip off either, if someone could make these for what some assume, I assure there would be a few more competitors on the market. These pumps are not for everyone but for some the extra money is justified.

The Eheim Hobby Pump is equally as good as the Red Dragon, but unfortunately they aren't offered in higher output. The Aqua-Medic Ocean Runners are also quiet and reliable, but limited to 6500LPH and the impeller shroud is made of brittle plastic. The Deltec Intervall series is supposed to be very good, but Deltec USA doesn't supply them. http://www.deltec-aquaristic.com/

Until something better (stronger) comes along, I use Poseidon pumps for return pumps even if I have to use two of them. They are available as pressure or volume pumps, dead quiet, and no significant heat transfer. They run at about 130F externally.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

The Eheim Hobby Pump is equally as good as the Red Dragon, but unfortunately they aren't offered in higher output. The Aqua-Medic Ocean Runners are also quiet and reliable, but limited to 6500LPH and the impeller shroud is made of brittle plastic. The Deltec Intervall series is supposed to be very good, but Deltec USA doesn't supply them. http://www.deltec-aquaristic.com/

Until something better (stronger) comes along, I use Poseidon pumps for return pumps even if I have to use two of them. They are available as pressure or volume pumps, dead quiet, and no significant heat transfer. They run at about 130F externally.

Absolutely, the eheims are good pumps but unfortunately don't meet everyone's flow requirements like you said. I don't have experience with the other pumps you mentioned but maybe it's hard to find a real comparison because it doesn't exist. Making a high flow magnetically driven pump that runs quiet and cool just might be difficult which would explain why prices are high.