quietest return pump

[golf nut]

2700 sounds like a lot of water for a sump return, why so much?

[Parker]

I have three darts on my tank and they each put out various levels of noise, but for the most part they are pretty quiet.

[sphelps]

Red Dragon 10 m3 fits your requirements, not sure about your budget though. I'm running a 6.5 and I can't even tell it's on unless I place my hand on it. It runs very cool and has very little vibration. The new gens now have anti lime bypasses and titanium shafts so be sure not to get old stock if you go for it.

I haven't seen the gold dart in action yet but every other reeflo pump was noisy in my books.

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by Parker

I have three darts on my tank and they each put out various levels of noise, but for the most part they are pretty quiet.

Obviously there are different schools of though on this but I don't see the point in running a return pump at a rate greater than what your skimmer can accommodate. It would be a complete waste of hydro. I'd run the smallest return pump you can to meet your head loss needs to keep up with your skimmer and only use propeller pumps for flow in the display and even one in the sump to keep detritus from collecting.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Obviously there are different schools of though on this but I don't see the point in running a return pump at a rate greater than what your skimmer can accommodate. It would be a complete waste of hydro. I'd run the smallest return pump you can to meet your head loss needs to keep up with your skimmer and only use propeller pumps for flow in the display and even one in the sump to keep detritus from collecting.

A good point but I see more to a sump than a skimmer. A higher return increases tank flow and reduces the demand for supplemental in tank flow, a big plus in my books. Also more flow increases surface tension and reduces scum build up in the display, it will also keep things suspended longer and filter more out of the display sending it to the sump quicker. Sumps can also hold mechanical filtration like socks and floss and chemical like carbon. These can benefit from higher flow. Finally things like heaters and pumps will work better with an increased convective heat transfer effect.

You don't have to run high flow but there are certainly benefits to it.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Obviously there are different schools of though on this but I don't see the point in running a return pump at a rate greater than what your skimmer can accommodate. It would be a complete waste of hydro. I'd run the smallest return pump you can to meet your head loss needs to keep up with your skimmer and only use propeller pumps for flow in the display and even one in the sump to keep detritus from collecting.

Originally Posted by sphelps

A good point but I see more to a sump than a skimmer. A higher return increases tank flow and reduces the demand for supplemental in tank flow, a big plus in my books. Also more flow increases surface tension and reduces scum build up in the display, it will also keep things suspended longer and filter more out of the display sending it to the sump quicker. Sumps can also hold mechanical filtration like socks and floss and chemical like carbon. These can benefit from higher flow. Finally things like heaters and pumps will work better with an increased convective heat transfer effect.

You don't have to run high flow but there are certainly benefits to it.

My number one reason for running a large return pump is I have enough flow from one pump to drive my entire mechanical system sans skimmer from one pump. My dart supplies my carbon and phosphate reactors, calc reactor, UV filter, fuge and tank return. Also, if your running your skimmer passively in your sump ( your return isn't plumbed directly into the skimmer ) your not skimming the entire contents of water flowing through that chamber, I don't think how fast or slow the water is flowing past the skimmer makes much of a difference. The skimmer still processes the same amount of water.

My second reason for running two additional darts is astetics. If I can avoid seeing mechanical devices in my display tank it's worth the extra noise, electrical costs and plumbing cost to me. As you mentioned people have different schools of thought.

[lastlight]

Yeah it's a RD2000 and is a skimmer pump.

I was under the impression the pumps were practically noiseless and myself and others have been suprised to find this isn't always the case. The issues I've read about may have primarily been skimmer pumps I can't recall. But the userbase is super small and I've personally read of enough issues in the forum to question the over-hyped quality (imo) of their pumps.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by lastlight

Yeah it's a RD2000 and is a skimmer pump.

I was under the impression the pumps were practically noiseless and myself and others have been suprised to find this isn't always the case. The issues I've read about may have primarily been skimmer pumps I can't recall. But the userbase is super small and I've personally read of enough issues in the forum to question the over-hyped quality (imo) of their pumps.

Skimmers are a funny thing, honestly no matter what type of skimmer you have you will have issues with it. This is because skimmer performance is based on so many variables we can't even begin to explain them. For example if I put my hand in my tank for a just a couple seconds my skimmer will stop working properly for a few minutes, and that's just one example. I use to build custom skimmers which replicated BKs but I soon quit because of the issues I had to deal with. I use to test the crap out of them and they would work just fine but as soon as the customer would get it, nothing but problems. I also run a BK skimmer and it is certainly the best skimmer I've used and certainly the quietest but it still makes noise, just less than everything else.

As far as price is concerned I honestly don't think you could make the same products for less. I work in manufacturing and machine design, I know what CNC machining costs and what would be involved in making these products, honestly the price isn't that bad and the quality is better than anything else. The problem is that not everyone sees the need for the extra quality, for example their tolerance is 0.005mm!! That is absolutely ridiculous but it sure is cool. If I asked our machine shop to do that they would laugh at first and then come up with a quote so high we would never go through with it.

I don't think the user base is very small, the Canadian distributor can't even keep these pumps in stock, they are usually sold before they arrive. It took about 5 months to get mine. The thing is you don't generally hear positive feedback, but you certainly hear negative. In addition when people pay more they expect more however the relationship isn't linear but rather exponential. For example Hyundai owners don't complain very much about their cars but BMW owners complain all the time. Price aside, BMW is a better car but yet you actually hear more complaints about BMW than you do about Hyundai. It's a funny thing but it's human nature. Nobody is going to take the time to post on such a forum saying "Hey my pump is working great, no issues what so ever".

So skimmers aside, the RD return pump is a good pump and to me, well worth the money. It might not be for everyone but if you care more about noise and quality over price a RD pump may be for you

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by sphelps

A good point but I see more to a sump than a skimmer. A higher return increases tank flow and reduces the demand for supplemental in tank flow, a big plus in my books. Also more flow increases surface tension and reduces scum build up in the display, it will also keep things suspended longer and filter more out of the display sending it to the sump quicker. Sumps can also hold mechanical filtration like socks and floss and chemical like carbon. These can benefit from higher flow. Finally things like heaters and pumps will work better with an increased convective heat transfer effect.

You don't have to run high flow but there are certainly benefits to it.

Again, a matter of personal preference but running a retun pump to provide circulation in the display tends to be woefully inefficient with respect to the amount of energy used and subsequently dumped back into the tank or atmosphere in the form of heat.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Again, a matter of personal preference but running a retun pump to provide circulation in the display tends to be woefully inefficient with respect to the amount of energy used and subsequently dumped back into the tank or atmosphere in the form of heat.

Correct in certain circumstances but not always, more often than not a single large pump is more efficient than multiple smaller pumps.

But again yes it's how you look at it, my main point was there are certainly advantages but that's not to say there aren't disadvantages as well. None of the advantages I listed related to efficiency and that's mostly because efficiency is closely tied to money.