The RED List of Fish, Inverts, and Corals

[MikeP]

I think all Anthia's should be on the YELLOW list. Maybe RED depending on the type.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by MikeP

I think all Anthia's should be on the YELLOW list. Maybe RED depending on the type.

Agreed but your going to have to start to get quite specific. Most Anthias will fit on one of the two lists for various reasons. Some are temperate fish for example and just don't belong in our tropical reefs. There are some species that do ok but need specific feedings. You can't just put Anthias on the list (not that you were suggesting that).

I think lists like this can start to get complicated unless you start to add sub categories and not generalize. The Bamboo sharks were a good example...too many species that vary in size to say they all reach 4'.

IMO, pretty much any species should be available. I just don't think they should be part of a regular shipment or common to see in a stores display. Many of the fish on that red list should be special order fish, probably making them expensive and only really sought after by a serious buyer. Someone with the proper set up. I think the real killer in this hobby is impulse buys and lack of knowledge. If these fish are not seen, not easy to get, the average person isn't going to want or look for them but when a Copperband Butterfly is $25 and in stores every few weeks...well people will keep buying and killing them. I am guilty of this. But if someone (and I know someone who does) wants to buy Zoa frags and sponges for their Moorish Idol regularly, then there is no reason they should not be able to keep these fish. His eats absolutely anything it seems anyways...even nori

Will never happen but would be nice. This list is a great idea to at least encourage and remind us to make the right decision.

[Haloreef]

Almost every thing we keep now, and consider "easy", was "impossible" less than 20 years ago! Through trial and error we learn. I don't think we should get any animal unless we are ready to try our best to keep it as close to happy as we can. Some animals are harder than others I agree! It was "impossible to breed clown fish, or Manderin Gobies not long ago! I think the best we can hope for is responsible people buy pets of whatever kind! Sadly not always the case!
Just my two cents worth, don't bite my head off.

[i have crabs]

same deal with the panther grouper, easy to keep fish even at 2' if the tank is bigenough, if its on the list for collection reasons thats a different issue
dosent the goverment have a redlist type of deal on fish allowed to be imported? maybe start with that, i can see this getting ugly

[Delphinus]

You know what, I'd consider bamboo sharks on your yellow list instead of your red list. The main problem with them is size, but otherwise, they more or less just sit there on the bottom and don't really have a lot of requirements. The main problem here is that most people will not have an appropriate sized habitat for them. But if you had the space to build, say, a lagoonal habitat that was really long, really wide and shallow, I don't see why they couldn't do fine long-term in there.

Also I disagree about gorgonians. Or at least you have to specify that you mean the non-photosynthetic species as being questionable. There are several species of photosynthetic gorgonians that are incredibly hardy in aquaria. Do agree that the nonphotosynthetic gorgonians belong on the yellow list over the red list because it is not impossible to keep them, but it is rather challenging and rather specific requirements that will be beyond the interest of the average aquarist.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

The main problem with them is size

This is what I was getting at earlier.

I think the list is a great idea but maybe there needs to be more categories. There could be a Yellow list that is caution for size, a Yellow list that is caution for specific diets, a Yellow list for...well you get the point.

If you are going to say 'Bamboo sharks' and base the entire family on ONE species adult size of 4' then you would have to maybe start to consider adding tangs to the list since Whitemargin Unicornfish grow to over 3'.

I know I am being a little difficult because we are talking about commonly available species here and fish like Whitemargin Unicornfish generally are not that common (although you do see them from time to time) but I think the danger here is generalizing instead of being quite specific. Its only fair.

What about Achilles Tangs? Not the best survival rate...

[Chin_Lee]

I vote Achilles Tang in the red list. Their survival rate in captivity is so dismal I swear I will never get one again. I brought 6 back from Hawaii two years ago and as of about 6 months ago, all six have perished.

[Delphinus]

Sorry GSP I didn't even see your reply before I posted mine. Agree 100% on your points.

[Bell Guy]

help a lot!!!!!!!!!!!

[Myka]

For those that are interested, I (as well as some other members who have volunteered) will be working on a CanReef version of a red list designed to help newbies make informed decisions about stocking their tank. Hopefully some more experienced reef keepers may even learn a thing or two as well. It will take some time to get the list, which I remind you guys is not a be all end all list.

Reef keeping would never advance if there weren't people out there willing to take some chances and push the envelope, but (imo) many of those attempts should be left for the more advanced aquarists who have a better chance of success. I think it would be great if more LFSs were proactive on this subject and only brought "red list" livestock in on special order. I think it starts with us, the reef keepers.