live rock & tufa

[vic622]

Hmmmm .... See and I thought I'd been doing my homework
I was told that tufa was a good option and that its quite a bit lighter than live rock.
Guess that's why I'm posting here, to find out the error of my ways before I have to pay twice to get it right!

As to the detrivore kit, thanks for the heads-up. I thought it would be a good option to help seed the sand & refurgium - glad to know its money for nothing that I'll get anyhow with good live rock. Maybe once I get my system up and happy I'll see if I can sell some, too

I'm going to take a closer look at a dry rock/live rock combo. Going this route, what proportion of live to dry should I realistically consider to avoid waiting a year for cycling?

Vic

[Myka]

Originally Posted by vic622

Hmmmm .... See and I thought I'd been doing my homework
I was told that tufa was a good option and that its quite a bit lighter than live rock.
Guess that's why I'm posting here, to find out the error of my ways before I have to pay twice to get it right!

As to the detrivore kit, thanks for the heads-up. I thought it would be a good option to help seed the sand & refurgium - glad to know its money for nothing that I'll get anyhow with good live rock. Maybe once I get my system up and happy I'll see if I can sell some, too

I'm going to take a closer look at a dry rock/live rock combo. Going this route, what proportion of live to dry should I realistically consider to avoid waiting a year for cycling?

Vic

I wouldn't say that Tufa would be a "wrong" choice, as there are plenty of people out there who use it, and swear by it, but there are also plenty of people who have been burned by it. The way I see it, why take the chance?

Tufa is lighter when it is dry. Once it is wet it should be the same weight as good quality live rock. Live rock when dried out is quite light too! In fact one of the ways to tell quality live rock is that it should seem to be quite light for the size of it (dry or wet).

You will always wait a year for dry rock to be fully seeded. You can't go around that. However, it won't take a year to cycle the tank. The tank should actually cycle in the same amount of time. You simply may see more nitrates in the first year or so that your aquarium is up and running as the dry rock matures and develops full colonization of anaerobic bacteria within it. Just keep to light stocking of the tank as far as fish and critters go for the first year or so as you see nitrates developing.

My recommendation would be to buy as much live rock as you can afford. The trouble is that you are starting with quite a large aquarium, and your start up costs are going to be significant. I would try to do 50/50, but 25/75 dry/live is acceptable as well. I have even seen people use all dry rock, and just one piece of live rock to seed. This works too, but takes a significant amount of time before the rock looks pleasing to the eye.

[vic622]

Originally Posted by Myka

...
You will always wait a year for dry rock to be fully seeded. You can't go around that.

That's how long it takes for all the rock to become "live" right?

... You simply may see more nitrates in the first year or so that your aquarium is up and running as the dry rock matures and develops full colonization of anaerobic bacteria within it. Just keep to light stocking of the tank as far as fish and critters go for the first year or so as you see nitrates developing.

Sounds like the live rock acts almost like a buffer for ammonia-nitrite/nitrate-phosphate - the more you have the better the system can buffer a load, whether its from fish/invert/food debris or natural (or otherwise) die-off.

... I would try to do 50/50, but 25/75 dry/live is acceptable as well. I have even seen people use all dry rock, and just one piece of live rock to seed. This works too, but takes a significant amount of time before the rock looks pleasing to the eye.

I imagine you'd need to spend the first year (starting from 1x live rock) with little or nothing in the tank other than the rock?!?

BTW, very informative articles!

Vic

[Myka]

Originally Posted by vic622

That's how long it takes for all the rock to become "live" right?

Sounds like the live rock acts almost like a buffer for ammonia-nitrite/nitrate-phosphate - the more you have the better the system can buffer a load, whether its from fish/invert/food debris or natural (or otherwise) die-off.

I imagine you'd need to spend the first year (starting from 1x live rock) with little or nothing in the tank other than the rock?!?

BTW, very informative articles!

Vic

Yes, in (very) short, that's how long it takes for the rock to become "live". i wouldn't use the word "buffer" to describe live rock's abilities just because that would be confusing with alkalinity buffers, but you have the idea right for sure. That's exactly what it does. Using just one piece of live rock, I wouldn't expect corals to do very well for the first 6-8 months, but if you kept the fish load to 50% or so, that would be fine.

Thanks for the comment on the articles. I wrote them to help people out as some questions come up over and over, and some of the answers can be long-winded, so I think it's best to point people to an article sometimes so they can get the whole story.

[vic622]

Originally Posted by Myka

... I wouldn't use the word "buffer" to describe live rock's abilities just because that would be confusing with alkalinity buffers, but you have the idea right for sure.

Okay. biological buffer
Same effect as live plants in my FW planted tanks. I take it in a fish-only system you need to have a reduced bioload - less fish and more water changes to compensate.

... Using just one piece of live rock, I wouldn't expect corals to do very well for the first 6-8 months, but if you kept the fish load to 50% or so, that would be fine.

I have a pretty good idea of fish load in a FW setup, but how do I figure this out in FOWLR? Is it different for a reef tank, too?

Thanks for the comment on the articles. I wrote them to help people out as some questions come up over and over, and some of the answers can be long-winded, so I think it's best to point people to an article sometimes so they can get the whole story.

Compared to some of the textbooks & articles I've had to struggle through in grad school, your's are succinct and informative!

I'd heard of curing live rock, but now I've got an idea what is going on - and I'd never heard of cooking before!

One question about the process of curing/cooking, do you lose ALL the organisms, or do enough survive to grow & seed the rest and the dry rock?

Vic