Funny how car maintenance works

[dsaundry]

Another thing that just hit me is that a lot of times that these shops will take women for granted, and add a few things on too. I have seen that first hand too. It happened to my wife with her car, when we were first dating. She took her car into a shop to get serviced and the guys said i will do this and that. So I knew that some of the stuff wasn’t done. Like the coolant, windshield washer fluid, JUST adding water and charging her for a bottle, stupid stuff like that, knowing that she would never look under the hood. Man Father always taught me to spray paint the oil plug to test other shops so i did that too. and guess what they didn’t even change the oil after saying that they did..

So after that they charged her over 300 dollars, she paid it came home crying and told me that the car wasn’t even touched on some things, she checked the oil and it was black not somewhat clear. The water in windshield container was all water. So needless to sya i went up there for a drive. and i went to talk to the manager. then showed him the receipt and ask if he could put the car up on the hoist, so i can show him the oil that has not been changed, he laughed ,then i told him that Ok i will prove that your guys are ripping people off and will see you in court.
The manager says i will humour you then put it up on the hoist.
any ways guess what happened next. The manager said oh we spray paint our plugs to ensure that they don’t come off.

YA whatever, I told him and then said I will see you in court and told him that is ok i have pictures of it all see you in court. needless to say the shop was closed from other complaints and the manager was fined and had to pay for my court time and we got our money back...

That is why I don’t trust people when they work on my car or the wife's car. I watch...

Sounds like you have had a bad experience, however 60% of my customers are female, a trend that is more common in the industry today.
If we put a part in, we always keep it for the customer. The majority of people look at it and say yup, throw it away, but I always give them the option if they want their old parts. I will be the first to admit that there are some real lousy shops out there and fortunately most dont last long. I think that is the case with most professions, lousy plumbers, lawyers, dr's, etc, etc. but to condemn a whole industry due to a poor experience is not right. I have a great lawyer that works for me, I love my doctor, and have some great professionals that work for me when I need them. I also have a great crew at work, that included weeding out some questionable staff from the early years. Any business has a growing period and as this is a human industry there are errors, how any individual or corporation deals with their errors is what defines them as good or bad. Just look at whats happening with banks, automotive companies{the big three] in particular. as well as with the economy. I have a motto at my shop..." If you like what we do, tell your friends, if you don't like what we do, Tell Me!" I have always believed in providing people with the same service that I expect to get. You gave a manager a chance to correct a mistake and he blew it. Not all people would. The unfortunate truth in most industries is that most people dont' complain..they just don't come back. I have not advertised in 3 years and my shop is always busy, I stress...always busy. I get all my customers from word of mouth and usually have a strong family connection..if the parents come in, the kids come in and so on. I hope you find a good shop and regain some faith in some industries...

[dsaundry]

Ok, Ok, I agree with one but not the other, we are grease monkeys plain and simple, I think we actually need less skill to be a good Mechanic than we did 30 years ago, but we do need more expensive equipment which tells us what is wrong.

Grease Monkey's?? My guys can get dirty, but they still wear gloves and use a seat cover and floor mat..sure you are bound to get oil and grease on us from time to time but that is like saying all a doctor does is stick his hands in blood all day. as for the less skill part, try tracing a ground fault in an electrical system, or finding a voltage drop in a circuit in any vehicle. If you think that your code reader is going to show you the problem you are sadly mistaken. Diagnostic labour can be the most trouble when working on any vehicle, sure sometimes it is easier, but how many back-yarders have a $10,000 scan tool with gas analyzer, let alone the hoists and other specialized tools that you need to do some jobs. Nevermind the fact that before I bought my shop I had over $50,000 in hand tools that I puchased and due to stupid government regulations I cant write virtually any of it off. Again it boiled down to the skills of the individual. You may have a good mechanic that charges you $60 per hour. Better hope his insurance is good, see what happens if he makes a mistake and I will bet he does sometimes, are you covered?? As for cleaning the IAC did he address what caused it to become contaminated, did he suggest a decarbonization or an injector flush? Did he service the air box and clean the tubing to your throttle body? I am not going to get into a finger pointing match with any other techs, but sometimes you get what you pay for. There are some real quality shops, and dealerships out there and they have the right to be paid for their services. There are some not so great shops and dealerships out there as well, and yes, I would like to see them close up their doors. But your statement about having to know less nowadays is misinformed.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by dsaundry

Grease Monkey's??

You may have a good mechanic that charges you $60 per hour. Better hope his insurance is good, see what happens if he makes a mistake and I will bet he does sometimes, are you covered?? As for cleaning the IAC did he address what caused it to become contaminated, did he suggest a decarbonization or an injector flush? Did he service the air box and clean the tubing to your throttle body? I am not going to get into a finger pointing match with any other techs, but sometimes you get what you pay for. There are some real quality shops, and dealerships out there and they have the right to be paid for their services. There are some not so great shops and dealerships out there as well, and yes, I would like to see them close up their doors. But your statement about having to know less nowadays is misinformed.

Grease monkey is just a carry over name your reading to much into that. My friend is not my mechanic I do all my own and I know what owners have to buy and I think it is hi way robbery, my shop at work, yes even in the military, had to buy about 30K in tools and such just so I could do warranty work on Volvo Penta stuff, which I am a authorized mechanic (grease monkey ) for.

It was myself that fixed my truck, I do my own stuff, and yes I did know what caused to to gum up, bad design, it was common in early truck 4.6 motors, and the easy fix would bypass some of the pollution junk so I just cleaned it when it needed it. I did do the decarbarization, I had an injector service. I did these every year asnormal maintance, I am kinda anal when it comes to my cars.

I am also a heavy duty diesel mechanic, and qualified by solar Saturn to work on there gas turbines. I have spent the last 19 years on courses and practical learning for these and several other mechanical systems. I am also as you put it a backyard mechanic for normal cars, although I like to think I have a leg up on most because of my training. I know the companies make you buy the big 10K reader, I have played with the snap-on one and it is neat even tells you the most common faults that cause the problem. I hate how they have you over their barrel for buying what they say when you can buy software and adapters for a laptop that will do the same thing for 1/10 of the cost. I know nowdays with the readers and newer sensors they tell you if you have a gound fault and let you know where to look, yes there is a learning curve to get good at electronics, but between the readers (good ones) and knowing how to do drop voltage tests and a little understanding of the computer workings it is actualy more simple than working on a old carburated motor that has a no start. alot of the repairs used to be trial and error and hours of trouble shooting, where nowdays you do a scan and where you have to look is narrowed down for you. Heck the Vodia tool for Volvo Penta will tell me which sensor is giving me the problem, weather it is a true reading or false, weather the power to the sensor is shorted or if the signal wire is shorted.


I have several friends who are mechanics, and several of my family are also, I am not knocking the mechanic, but rather the system. the big shops make it very hard for a self employed guy to get a good business going so they have to have lower prices, and I know what happens when he puts a part in that was defective, he eats it and replaces it so he can keep the customers.

anyways aside from that, I have all the respect in the world for honest shops, but they don't seam to be the norm lately.

oh if you want a challenge I got one for you, no one can figure it out, not me, not ford, not and of the other shops I have talked to as it is a real weird one. how familiar are you with 1996 3L Vulcan V6 in the Taurus?

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

Taurus, Ya throw it away LOL

[tgoeujon]

whats the question on the v6 taurus?

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by tgoeujon

whats the question on the v6 taurus?

ok to me it sounds like a couple problems mixed together

it drives fine, actually really nice for a car with almost 300K on it. We bought it in 99 with 99K on it, and have not had to put any money into it aside from regular preventive maintenance untill recently where we had to change the oil pan as it went pourous, and a few years back I had to change the timing sensor as the berring on it went and we changed the A frame mounts. Spark plugs, wires, oil sender are all new, it had a fuel injection service about 8 months ago, and is not throwing any codes at all, not even the ford codes that a normal code reader can't read.

what happens is every once and a while it starts knocking under load, and blows blue smoke like crazy. then it stops a runs like a new motor. I replaced the PCV and the grommet and it stopped doing this for a couple weeks then it started again.

I have checked the timing sender and put it on the scope to verify the timing is ok. when I am doing live reading while driving the timing drops off while it is knocking, but the timing sender check out fine when I test it. The knocking doesn't sound like the old timing is out rattle but rather a hard knock. and it is using a lot of oil laity.

We are getting the wife a new car in the near future but I want this one to hold out a little longer as I don't know how long it will take to finnish the will and get the money to get the wife a new VW TDI.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

Taurus, Ya throw it away LOL

yup were going to, and get a 09 VW TDI. I was hoping this one would last untill this summer when we move to Kamloops or till we get the new car (which ever comes first) which it will but I want it to run better than it is untill then.

Steve

[dsaundry]

Have you determined if it is bottom end knock or top end? Bottom end might be the early indication of a rod starting to let go. You say that the timing does drop out when it is knocking which is normal as the knock sensor would cause it to drop. It might also be a valve issue as well. As big of a pain as it is, its time to pull the heads and inspect..I would really like to hear it first...

Sorry dont mean to hijack a thread here....

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by dsaundry

Have you determined if it is bottom end knock or top end? Bottom end might be the early indication of a rod starting to let go. You say that the timing does drop out when it is knocking which is normal as the knock sensor would cause it to drop. It might also be a valve issue as well. As big of a pain as it is, its time to pull the heads and inspect..I would really like to hear it first...

Sorry dont mean to hijack a thread here....

No worries, hijack away, I find the info interesting and useful.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by dsaundry

Have you determined if it is bottom end knock or top end? Bottom end might be the early indication of a rod starting to let go. You say that the timing does drop out when it is knocking which is normal as the knock sensor would cause it to drop. It might also be a valve issue as well. As big of a pain as it is, its time to pull the heads and inspect..I would really like to hear it first...

Sorry dont mean to hijack a thread here....

Ya, I thought it was the knock sensor so I wasn't to worried about that thought I would mention it though.
If I had to guess, I would say lower end, as it is slower than engine speed, I thought of a rod but it doesn't make sense, as it is not consistant enough. If it was a rod going under load then it would do it pretty much every time you loaded it up, not only once in a blue moon, oh and if you floor it when it is knocking it goes away (forgot to mention that) I have been avoiding the pulling the heads part as I am thinking that way myself, but it is a lot for a car we are getting rid of and isn't worth anything .

Steve