Sigh...I have seen this look before

[robert J]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Not trying to put the hobby down or anything but makes me wonder if I would have ever got into marine fishkeeping if I knew how many fish died for me to have just one specimen or how badly the reefs are destroyed for my pleasure...

I may have stayed freshwater. Its very discouraging.

I agreed, it is very discouraging !

[naesco]

There is one thing we can all do and that is this.
When someone posts concerning a known difficult to keep species, we all can post a short warning concerning our experiences and in this way avoid newbies from repeating our mistakes.

Local fisherman protect their reefs because it is thier livelihood. The problem is roving 'fisherman' that use cyanide for short term gain without any regard for the damage they are doing to the reefs and the critters that live therein.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by naesco

There is one thing we can all do and that is this.
When someone posts concerning a known difficult to keep species, we all can post a short warning concerning our experiences and in this way avoid newbies from repeating our mistakes.

Local fisherman protect their reefs because it is thier livelihood. The problem is roving 'fisherman' that use cyanide for short term gain without any regard for the damage they are doing to the reefs and the critters that live therein.

I agree. If people at least think twice about fish like Copperbands, it can help. The problem is not going to be solved at the collection end but can be addressed at the demand end. If people don't want copperbands, they loose their value.

I really hope one day many of these fish can be captive bred. I have heard of some programs that have that goal but have no idea how far along they are. Some of them use protected areas of the ocean (like some of the aquacultured LR suppliers) and some in giant tanks. Either way, it would be nice to head towards a healthier, environmentally friendly hobby.

[Delphinus]

That's some sobering statistics. It makes me think that indeed the importation of wild-caught fish needs to end altogether. That's simply unsustainable practise.

My CBB is now about 2 years old. I would have to say that the people who are beating themselves up in this thread should not do so, I don't think the problem was your "skills" per se but something further up the retail chain. I didn't realize how horrid the hit to miss ratio was with this fish, I just picked up a small guy one day at the LFS. Very picky eater but is easy enough to satiate with a few staples such as mysis, aiptasia (I let them run rampant in one tank so I can move rocks over once in a while), and grocery store shellfish. Unfortunately everyone loves mussels and oysters so it's hard to make sure he gets enough, I stick it in a narrow crevasse that only he can fit in and so on. Anyhow point being I don't think I do anything special and I don't consider my husbandry at a level any better than anyone else. I think the source must be a factor here.

Anyhow sorry to hear how bad it really is out there. Does make me have some second thoughts about what impact the hobby is having.

[naesco]

We can do our part by buying farm raised fish whereever possible. ie seahorses, clowns, regal tangs, pseudochromis, bangaii etc.

A closure of the fishery will mean tragic economic loss to the legitimate fishers which depend on our hobby to feed themselves.

If we stop buying known cyanide caught fish, the problem goes away because the bad guys have nothing to sell.

[dkcrx]

Originally Posted by naesco

We can do our part by buying farm raised fish whereever possible. ie seahorses, clowns, regal tangs, pseudochromis, bangaii etc.

A closure of the fishery will mean tragic economic loss to the legitimate fishers which depend on our hobby to feed themselves.

If we stop buying known cyanide caught fish, the problem goes away because the bad guys have nothing to sell.

Well said!

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by naesco

We can do our part by buying farm raised fish whereever possible. ie seahorses, clowns, regal tangs, pseudochromis, bangaii etc.

A closure of the fishery will mean tragic economic loss to the legitimate fishers which depend on our hobby to feed themselves.

If we stop buying known cyanide caught fish, the problem goes away because the bad guys have nothing to sell.

But if we have no proof that its cyanide caught or not. How can we quit buying them??? I for one will not, to the best of my knowledge, buy cyanide caught fish. But, even with a "stamp of approval" how can one be 100% sure, unless we start drug testing every fish?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

But if we have no proof that its cyanide caught or not. How can we quit buying them??? I for one will not, to the best of my knowledge, buy cyanide caught fish. But, even with a "stamp of approval" how can one be 100% sure, unless we start drug testing every fish?

Thats the problem and actually drug testing will not show anything. The cyanide does not stay in the fish long. By the time they are in the wholesalers tanks, the cyanide is gone. Cyanide is not something that keeps degrading a fish over time. It does its damage and then is expelled. The problem is that it does a lot of damage quickly that is irreversible. There is only so long a fish can survive without gut fauna or a working liver. This is why they generally will die between 4-6 months. I think some who come in less direct contact with the cyanide have a better chance obviously and do survive.

After a fish dies, it can be tested but it involves very expensive lab equipment, a lot of knowledge and putting the fish in a blender. Not something most LFS or most of us will ever do.

Officials in Hong Kong were trying to test for cyanide in groupers imported for food but it never worked out. Its thought that they didn't actually care anyways since the cyanide is not in the fishes system by the time it is eaten but they wanted to "look good" by testing. One of the big wholesalers of coral trout (for food) in Hong Kong even publicly said he did not care whether the fish were cyanide caught or not because the poison was gone before people ate them--kind of missed the point

I believe live fish are worth 4-5 times the amount of dead (whether for food or the hobby) so there is a big incentive for collectors...the problem is, with nets it can take all day to catch two coral trout (groupers) of the right size but with cyanide they can catch dozens and with little effort/cost. I know with large groupers they will scare them into the rocks and then squirt a bunch of cyanide into their face and simply pull them back out of the rocks. Unfortunately the size that is preferred for eating is right when the fish is becoming sexually active.

[fishoholic]

I've had my 1st CBB for a year and a half now he eats mysis and keeps my tank aptasia free. I bought a second one (in hopes of saving it) from a not so great source and he died two days later. I bought another one and he was eating mysis and was doing very well for a little over a month and then one day I never saw him again I guess he died and the bristle worms ate him, but I still don't know for sure what ever happened to him, just that he disappeared.

I will honestly admit that even though I know they have a poor survival rate I do plan on getting one for my other 230g. The CBB's eat aptasia and I hate the look of aptasia and therefor I will always try to keep one in my tanks. I will do my best to pick out a healthy one and I will not buy one that isn't already eating, and if I even remotely think it's cyanide caught forget it, but other then that...

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Anyone ever noticed a dark spot on their CCB before it died? I have seen this in a previous one and now in this little guy. Its kind of a darker area (easy to see on the white) about half way down this body. Its under the skin and almost looks like something inside him ruptured.

Oh and he is "swimming" upside down and sideways today