Puffer eating clownfish

[my2rotties]

Now you have brought up so many topics the are not really relevant to what I was posting, but that is alright. I see you love a good argument, but I do not have the time to play with you any longer. I am sure you and I could do this for all eternity. As much as I would love to finish this debate it is getting me bored and tired now.

I could go on and on, but just don't have the ambition to do so anymore. It was fun and I am sure we will do it again in the future. I wish I knew how to make a cute little picture too, but sadly, I don't have the skills.

You way of thinking will seal the fate of this hobby some day when we are not allowed to buy any captive fish at all, since there will none to buy. I would not have bought my big puffer if he was not available for me to buy. You missed my points entirely, but I can't blame you for that.

Have a b=nice day.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Now you have brought up so many topics the are not really relevant to what I was posting, but that is alright. I see you love a good argument, but I do not have the time to play with you any longer. I am sure you and I could do this for all eternity. As much as I would love to finish this debate it is getting me bored and tired now.

I'm a little lost to what your argument was, could you maybe help me out cause I'm a little confused.
One minute you're saying one thing the next something completely different and contradicting.

So basically are you happy with your purchase? Did you think it was the right thing to do?

Are you still mad at the LFS? If so why?

Do you believe bringing in larger fish is wrong? How so?

Where do you draw your ethical line? Seriously I'm really curious, everyone has a different opinion but I'm having difficulty reading yours.

[my2rotties]

I did admit I contradicted myself on many matters. When you have mixed feelings about things, that does happen.

I am more mad at myself then the store since I depended on what he said in deciding to bring the fish home. But in his defense he has a business to run, and although I might think it is his responsibility to answers questions clearly, perhaps my expectations are too high. My choice to not go there anymore is because I feel I cannot trust his word or he does not have enough knowledge to help me out. Yes I can research, which I did do. If I don't trust a person I am dealing with, why would I do business with them again?

I am happy with the fish. He is strong and healthy, great colours, that is why I picked him. I do not blame him for doing what comes naturally he is a wild fish. I don't know how old he really is, I was told about a year or year and a half. I was told by a very experienced keeper of tangs that the large fish in the store whom is supposed to be the same age as my puffer, must be at least five years old. I have no knowledge of fish to know how you can even tell how old a wild fish really is. I go by the word of the LFS, as this is their business to know.

I am on the fence about things. However young fish do adapt much more easily. Any animal or human can adapt more easily to anything when they are young. I do not feel mature fish should be pulled from a reef. They survived for several years in nature and are entitled to breeding and carrying the circle of life. My big issues with capturing wild fish is the use of cyanide and gas to stun them and capture them. I don't think it is fair to do that and kill many other creatures in the process of capturing fish for the hobbyist. When I look at the big picture when people net them it can be compared to being hunted. It happens everyday to eat or be eaten. However, when they are poisoned and stunned that is crossing the line. When I think of that, then even the larger fish whom are netted would have been eaten by a predator and would be gone any ways. SO there I am contradicting myself again. I see it, and have seen it many times. I just feel it is wrong, and now I am giving myself reasons to justify it. Perhaps when I justify it I can accept what reef keepers are doing.

I guess I change my feelings due to being asked about them and I learn more about the issues I brought up in the first place. Because I am debating with you guys, it makes me open my mind on how things really are... does that makes sense?

So where do I draw the line?

I think it is awful to catch fish with chemicals. Make it a more level playing field and catch them by net. I wish people had some mercy and would leave the big fish in the ocean to reproduce and provide us with young fish that can adapt to captivity. They are more valuable in the oceans then they are in a display tank.

When people go into an LFS and ask questions, the seller should be honest, and/or knowledgeable about what we are purchasing. Some buyers don't always know all the questions to ask, but a seller should try to inform a buyer as much as possible prior to the purchase. Sellers should ask the buyer questions about their set ups to see if the buyer can provide a proper home. I know some people want what they want and are get it no matter what. However people that have an interest in the well being of their fish and tank mates should be regarded.

I think I do read into things too much because I have owned and rescued various animals all my life. I fostered exotic birds that were unwanted because they are too much work. The cockatoo self mutilated herself because nobody paid attention to her. When they hit breeding ago, they become unmanageable due to their desire for a mate and to breed. People think birds can be kept in a cage with little or no care and buy them. I rescued a rehomed a couple of rabbits since people think they can live in a filthy cage with no human contact. I rescued some goldfish from my gym since they were living in a cess pool and could not breath anymore. I rescued Rottweilers and a Pit Bull from horrible fates and they spent the rest of their lives with me.

Perhaps fish are not near to being the aforementioned animals, but because I saw what they went through, it makes me think really hard about ANY creature under my care. I understand I am reading into this all too much, but I have seen a lot of suffering from puppy mills, pet stores and impulse buying of pets people are not equipped to care for. They are just fish, right?

I will stop mentioning why I look into things and think way too much about the fish industry. I know I am comparing things that are not the same but cannot help it anyways. So yes, I am all over the place, but am glad I am addressing my questions and concerns, and being called out for why I think the way that I do.

YES I love the hobby, YES I love buying new livestock for my tank. I am no different then all of you. I don't know where the lines are drawn in this hobby so this is why I asked in the first place. Will I keep my fish? Of course I will. I learned a lot from him, and from the members of this forum.

Originally Posted by sphelps

I'm a little lost to what your argument was, could you maybe help me out cause I'm a little confused.
One minute you're saying one thing the next something completely different and contradicting.

So basically are you happy with your purchase? Did you think it was the right thing to do?

Are you still mad at the LFS? If so why?

Do you believe bringing in larger fish is wrong? How so?

Where do you draw your ethical line? Seriously I'm really curious, everyone has a different opinion but I'm having difficulty reading yours.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I am happy with the fish. He is strong and healthy, great colours, that is why I picked him. I do not blame him for doing what comes naturally he is a wild fish. I don't know how old he really is, I was told about a year or year and a half

Correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression you feel your puffer killing the clownfish was a learned behavior because it was captured at a larger size. You also think that this would have been less likely to happen if you had introduced a juvenile puffer.

Based on my experience with these fish I would say that is a faulty line of reasoning. They are curious and unpredictable regardless of age and this could have happened at any time. I've noticed little difference in behavior between juvi and older imports.

[superduperwesman]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Now you have brought up so many topics the are not really relevant to what I was posting, but that is alright.

Yeah you're right almost everything was completely irrelevant...???

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I see you love a good argument, but I do not
have the time to play with you any longer. I am sure you and I could do this for all eternity. As much as I would love to finish this debate it is getting me bored and tired now.

I could go on and on, but just don't have the ambition to do so anymore. It was fun and I am sure we will do it again in the future.

Again the story changes:

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I love a good arguement so keep it coming.

but that's cool I understand why your tired... it's hard to argue when you're not being rational or logical. Better luck next time.

But in the mean time I'm glad your done "playing" with your little toy... sounds like a throw away kinda attitude to me.... "if only we could fix that in the world"?

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I wish I knew how to make a cute little picture too, but sadly, I don't have the skills.

Belittling my skills with sarcasm only works if they're actually my skills...I never made the picture

Originally Posted by my2rotties

You way of thinking will seal the fate of this hobby some day when we are not allowed to buy any captive fish at all, since there will none to buy.

Yeah your right my humble 10 gallon is basically emptying the ocean as we speak.

And who's going to stop me from buying these "captive fish" if there is none?? Again your statements are completely irrational.

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I would not have bought my big puffer if he was not available for me to buy. You missed my points entirely, but I can't blame you for that.

Passing the buck... it's not your fault it's whoever provided the fish and I wouldn't have killed the guy if I didn't have a gun available to me.

You can blame me or your lfs for whatever you want. You have been, so why stop now.... Doesn't mean any of the blame is founded or true but you can blame whom ever you want.

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Have a b=nice day.

Always do