New Tank Cycle - Done or not started??

[Carmen]

I am not sure if my tank is done cycling already?? or hasn't started?? I have a 27G with sand and 40lbs LR running for 2 weeks and there have been NO increase in ammonium, nitrites, or nitrates. I test 1-2 times daily with new testkits. LR was from established tanks(with the exception of 8lbs from LFS). I have lots of "critters" and now seeing some algae growth.

Is the cycle done? Can I add a few CUC? If so what should I start with and how many? Should I hold off for awhile longer? I am in no rush for fish and corals but would love some little CUC type stuff to look at, if I'm ready!

Also my pH is always low?? At 7.8 should I add some ph up? (SG 1.025 and high alk)
A couple more newb questions...I have a canister filter with just the filter ring things - no other media or sponges. Should I just leave it at that or switch to LR rubble stuff? If so do you buy rubble from the LFS?
Anything else I should add to the canister?

Okay another question... I made up some WC water and stored it in a bucket. How long can I store it or should I always make it up fresh? Does it need to be aerated constantly and heated or just before placing in the tank?

And is it absolutely necessary to have a skimmer? I will do WC weekly but I wonder if I should be looking into a skimmer right away? Is there such a thing as an inexpesive skimmer that works?

Okay, I know I have a million questions (and a million more) and I try to do some research before asking but still find myself confused on these things. I truly appreciate any help or comments. Thanks

Carmen

[vazgor]

well i would say that after 2 weeks you should wait another 4-6 too be shure but i could only wait a munth when i swiched over to my new tank i used all the live rock and sand with 50 lbs of new sand and 60 lbs of new rock
and so far so good
but i would defanatly say to wait longer tan 2 weeks if you want some thing to look at ghet some cheep hermits and a snail or two maby a small clown fish to get the cycle going lots a luck and welcome too the club

[dsaundry]

I would suggest that you don't test 1-2 times a day. You will go through test kits like mad. Second, the biggest mistake people make is to rush their set ups. 4-6 weeks should be fine, as you are using previously cycled rock you might be ok to start slowly in a couple more weeks. What type of livestock are you planning to have?? As for skimmer, it's a good idea anytime you have a tank with livestock. As for inexpensive, that is relevant on what you want to spend, Under $100 or under $400?? Maybe see if there are some members that are getting rid of a skimmer, a good used one that works well is better than a shiny new one that doesn't. As for putting in a small Clean Up Crew, I would say, wait until there is something for them to really clean up. I currently run a 27g bowfront and didn't put anything to clean tank until after I had added a couple of fish. I used all live rock from my other tanks and the water cycled to my satisfaction after about a month. If you want it to cycle faster I would put a couple of small Yellow Tail Blue Damsels in. Colourful and nice to look at. For your ph issues, do you check your calcium? You may be low on calcium. What type of salt are you using?? As for water preporation, I have always pre-made mine in a bucket with a heater and pump in it, both in fresh{for top ups} and my salt mix. I go through fresh quite quickly as I am topping 3 tanks, but I have had salt mix made up for a week and had no adverse affects. You say you are in no rush for corals and fish but what type are you planning on keeping? All this is going to determine how fast you can put things in. I threw a couple of mushroom rocks in at one month and they are doing great. One more question, are you going to be dosing??

[Marlin65]

As far as your cycle did you add anything to start it? like a dead shrimp.
If you used uncured rock it would have enough dead stuff on it to start it but if you used mostly cured there will not be much to start it.

Add Kalkwater to bump your PH and calcium at the same time just make sure to add it slowly and preferably at night when your lights are off.
Or you can use buffer to bring it up.

Your saltwater will keep a long time if you keep it dark and cool. A few weeks with a heater and air in okay though. You should leave it for at least a day to mix it's better that way than fresh made.

Rubble rock is just small pieces of live rock you could try the store or just use bigger pieces. Does not make that much of a difference. Smash it with a hammer to make it fit in the canister.

On a 27 gallon just do the water changes if you want to buy the skimmer later. The skimmer just lets you do less water changes less often as it removes the crap. Don't do any water changes until your cycle has finished though as that prolongs the cycle time.

I started with adding a few soft corals first before CUC and fish.
as they are a bit more forgiving. Most people add CUC then fish then corals.
But I would say try a mushroom or two to test they are cheap and are a good indicator of your water quality.
Usual time is about a month but you started with rock from an established tank and it is possible you have already gone through you cycle. I cycled mine in two weeks but same as you had established rock and only had a small NO2 spike no Ammonia. I then went to no NO2 with 10 ppm NO3
My tank is now a month old and my NO3 is at 2.5ppm
Have 2 clowns SPS and some soft corals all doing great.

Hope that helps don't forget to test magnesium as thats tied to your Calcium.
Most salt does not have enough of both so you need to add it to get your levels where they need to be.

[dsaundry]

One more thing, as for your filtration. I am not sure by ring things but you may want to watch it as they can be little nitrate factories.. I use sponge in mine and carbon or chemi-pure in my others..the rock will do a good job, as for rubble, I have heard both pros and cons on that as well.
Good water flow is critical as well. I have a couple of power heads in mine. When the time comes to add livestock you may want to consider a nice little Pistol Shrimp and Goby combo. The little guy does a nice job moving sand...that is if you are going with sand and not just a glass bottom tank.

[Myka]

The "ring things" should be taken out. Use some LR rubble...available at LFSs usually.

If you're getting algae growth, I'd add a single Astrea snail to help eat it. If you notice the snail can't keep up, add one more. Don't get Turbo snails...they get huge and knock your corals over.

As far as a skimmer goes...IMO definately necessary. The more you can spend the better, but definately go with a used one over a new one if money is an issue. The cheapest one I would recommend would be an AquaC Remora. You should be able to find a used one for about $100 ($200 new). A step up would be a Deltec MCE-300, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a used one. They are about $300 new.

[Carmen]

Thank you so much for your opinions and advice. It has been helpful. The thing I have noticed is there are varied opinions on just about EVERYTHING to do with SW!!! So from the comments I've deduced that I need to start testing Calcium and Mg and possibly start adding those before corals. Also Those may help the pH?(Is that what your getting at?) I use Instant Ocean for now and will upgrade later.

And take out the rings and add rubble - general consensus? Okay, do I fill it completely and add nothing else or do carbon/chemipure too?

And shouldn't I be getting some kinda readings to show evidence of a cycle by now??

Okay so hold off on putting anything in.
I have not made my decisions on coral,fish etc. since I had planned on waiting another month or 2 and still have time to do research in that department. Also have not got my lights yet - ordered but not received yet. I thought I was supposed to start with CUC first so that is what I have started to look into? So many ways of doing things I guess hey?

And I will look for a used remora skimmer. Thanks again.

Carmen

[michika]

For the rock rubble, don't over fill it. Stack it so its like a giant piece of swiss cheese, lots of holes for water flow, and lots of surface area for bacteria. You'd probably be better off running carbon, if you want, you don't have to, in a filter bag and putting it elsewhere.

Benefits of running it within; good contact with the carbon. Downside; could clog up your filter if you don't change it frequently or keep an eye on it.

There are other skimmers out there that may also serve your purposes. No, you don't HAVE to have a skimmer, there have been some successful tanks without. Its your choice, it really is.

You may actually not see any cycle, you mentioned you had used established rock. At this point I'm thinking there may have been a mini cycle, but it could have been so small as not to show on your test kits. Go ahead, toss something in if your water parameters are fine. A mushroom, or even a single crab or snail will do.

Have you visited anyone to see their set-ups? Take a trip over to reefkeepingmagazine.com and go through some of the tank of the month articles. They can show you a great deal of variety, although most of the tanks are SPS dominant, and you can get a good feel for what you like in terms of rockwork, etc.

[Marlin65]

Originally Posted by michika

For the rock rubble, don't over fill it. Stack it so its like a giant piece of swiss cheese, lots of holes for water flow, and lots of surface area for bacteria. You'd probably be better off running carbon, if you want, you don't have to, in a filter bag and putting it elsewhere.

Benefits of running it within; good contact with the carbon. Downside; could clog up your filter if you don't change it frequently or keep an eye on it.

There are other skimmers out there that may also serve your purposes. No, you don't HAVE to have a skimmer, there have been some successful tanks without. Its your choice, it really is.

You may actually not see any cycle, you mentioned you had used established rock. At this point I'm thinking there may have been a mini cycle, but it could have been so small as not to show on your test kits. Go ahead, toss something in if your water parameters are fine. A mushroom, or even a single crab or snail will do.

Have you visited anyone to see their set-ups? Take a trip over to reefkeepingmagazine.com and go through some of the tank of the month articles. They can show you a great deal of variety, although most of the tanks are SPS dominant, and you can get a good feel for what you like in terms of rockwork, etc.

I second this advice.

[Carmen]

Thank you so much Michika. It is really great to have some support here because there really are so many options and everyone seems to have a different answer. I appreciate the advice and will definately get some large rubble to put in along with some carbon in a filter bag.