Pet Store Supports Puppy Mills

[iansfishy]

so i have a question. I have six dogs. A Catahoula couger hound from louisianna, three border collies and two blue heelers. the hound and the two oldest border collies are allowed in the house. the other three have never set foot in my house. ( just trying to give you some background). not that i dont let them in my house but they simply are uncomfortable inside. They are working dogs ( I have a ranch and there is nothing more useful then good dogs). my hound has one eye and half of one ear from a well aimed whack from a couger a couple years back. He was doing his job and what he is bred for. he loves my young daughter and she loves him, so he is retiring in the comfort of our home. my two older collies breed every couple years and always these pups are taken by other ranchers who utilise them for work (usually after being with their parents long enough to learn a thing or two) I dont charge anything for the dogs, but if the pups dont work out for the ranchers, (because they are too timid or as we say not "cowy" enough they are brought back to me and i have to take these dogs to the local livestock feed sales store so they can sell them.( not a pet store) Its that or i would have twenty dogs! I dont breed becuse i think its fun or becuase im too cheap to get my dogs fixed 90% of the pups are very, very useful, and are having great lives doing what they are bred and raised to do. there is nothing better then seeing a dog doing what it loves. which is what a lot of people forget. before getting a dog for looks, think about its suitability in your life and how your lifestyle is going to affect the dog. Now my question for those "backyard breeders" dissaprovers - am i running a puppy mill? because im not a certified breeder. not one of my dogs has ever had a hip problem or any disease found with " certified pure bred breeders". My heeler even "slipped one past the goalie" once and I always get comments on the border collie / heeler pups. Every one of the five pups is a great working or family dog. Call me insensitive but i dont have the time or energy to be finding out about the health and welfare of every dog that has come from me. i like hearing about them but that is the extent. I am totally against people breeding dogs for the purpose of selling them to pet stores, but they are just the middle man. you cant say that alot of pure bred dogs from breeders dont end up in the same situation as a cros bred mutt from someones house. They gotta come from somewhere. I STILL SEE NO PROOF OF SAID "PUPPY MILL"?
now i just got a quick story - i was in langly a month ago with my two heelers ( they pretty much live in my truck) i cant drive into the field without them getting in the back. i stayed at my cousins house in the "burbs" for two days, all the time my dogs where in the box of my truck, at night and all day except for the couple times i took them for runs. If they arent working they sleep and lay in the truck they like it and they protect it fiercly. Now my cousins neighbor had the nerve to call the SPCA about my dogs that where being treated sooooooooooooooooooo badly in the back of my truck. I simply told the SPCA lady and my cousins nosy neighbour that if they felt so strongly that they where more then welcome to try and drop the tailgate but if the valued their arms i suggested they didnt. That is what those dogs are bred to do. They are not mean dogs. my young daughter plays with them all the time. But they know there job. my point is before preaching about pet stores and puppy mills consider your own actions towards the reason you are purchasing said dog and how in a large circle in one way or the other you do support their BREEDING and before you cut someone down because of how you feel they are treating their dogs take a moment and think before letting the accusations fly. But i guess everyone who has ever bought a dog for a thousand bucks from a dealer has had it live for fifty years, had never had a problem with them and has never taken that dog to a shelter! By the way my heelers are having pups in april. The pups are already spoken for. Call the SPCA

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by iansfishy

I dont charge anything for the dogs, but if the pups dont work out for the ranchers, (because they are too timid or as we say not "cowy" enough they are brought back to me and i have to take these dogs to the local livestock feed sales store so they can sell them.( not a pet store) Its that or i would have twenty dogs! I dont breed becuse i think its fun or becuase im too cheap to get my dogs fixed 90% of the pups are very, very useful, and are having great lives doing what they are bred and raised to do. there is nothing better then seeing a dog doing what it loves. which is what a lot of people forget. before getting a dog for looks, think about its suitability in your life and how your lifestyle is going to affect the dog. Now my question for those "backyard breeders" dissaprovers - am i running a puppy mill? because im not a certified breeder.

As I noted before a true puppy mill stacks the dogs (10-30 dogs, usually small cute popular breeds) in cages on top of one another only letting the dogs out from the cage to breed. They also charge lots of $$$ for their dogs and they like to tell people they can cross breed whatever type of dog you want so you can get that certain look your after. I know this for a fact because we've rescued dogs from places like this.

Since it sounds like you are not doing this then I would say no you are not running a puppy mill, probably no were near it.

Maybe I'm confused but IMO there is nothing wrong with breeding dogs backyard or certified if #1 you are doing it for the right reasons #2 you are trying to find proper homes for them, and (most importantly) #3 you are taking good care of the dogs you are breeding. Good care to me means: if they are in kennels/dog runs you take them for walks/let them run around in a backyard/feild, brush them, play with them, give them water and food, and let the dogs know they are loved.

When someone is breeding animals just to make money, they don't care who the animal goes home with as long as they get paid, and they keep the dog in inhumane conditions, that's when I have a big problem with it.

I would also like to say that if you have a boy dog who isn't fixed and you let him run around impregnating others then take no responsibillity for the puppies, get your dog neutered. If you have a girl dog and she comes home pregnant and you don't want to deal with the puppies PLEASE don't take the puppies out back and shoot them in the head one by one (yes this happens, sometimes we make it out to recuse the puppies before it does, and sometimes we don't ) just spay your dog, and you wont have to worry about it.

[Aquattro]

I feel the need to clarify something here. When I say a reputable breeder, I am not sanctioning any CKC or AKC breeder as inclusively being reputable because of said memberships or registrations. A reputable breeder is just that; a breeder with a good reputation for long term successful and ethical breeding. If someone performs this type of breeding in their backyard, fine. You don't need to be a huge commercial kennel, you need to be a thoughtful ethical person with more concern for the fate of your breed and the fate of your pups in particular. You give more concern to these things than you do profit. The good breeders I know do not generally even see profit, they mostly cover expenses of something they love doing.
What we're against is the commercial breeding that puts health/long term quality aside for the sake of making a buck. This is doing the dogs and the owners a disservice and nobody but the breeder ends up winning. I don't care where you breed, it's how you do it. Get vet checks, screen genetic diseases and try your best to not propagte known issues. This is being responsible. If you miss something in screening, be propared to stand behind your sale for the life of the dog.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

I feel the need to clarify something here. When I say a reputable breeder, I am not sanctioning any CKC or AKC breeder as inclusively being reputable because of said memberships or registrations. A reputable breeder is just that; a breeder with a good reputation for long term successful and ethical breeding. If someone performs this type of breeding in their backyard, fine. You don't need to be a huge commercial kennel, you need to be a thoughtful ethical person with more concern for the fate of your breed and the fate of your pups in particular. You give more concern to these things than you do profit. The good breeders I know do not generally even see profit, they mostly cover expenses of something they love doing.
What we're against is the commercial breeding that puts health/long term quality aside for the sake of making a buck. This is doing the dogs and the owners a disservice and nobody but the breeder ends up winning. I don't care where you breed, it's how you do it. Get vet checks, screen genetic diseases and try your best to not propagte known issues. This is being responsible. If you miss something in screening, be propared to stand behind your sale for the life of the dog.

Well said.

[EmilyB]

Yes, very well said Brad. Backyards have nothing to do with the term.

I would extend my own personal definition of puppy mills to include breeders who produce inventory to stock pet stores.

And I honestly can't come to terms with a pet store profiting from rescue animals. Is the option there to adopt directly from the rescue org?

The head office of the store said the dog would be moved to better housing if required.

So we all hope things go well for her.

Happy tails to you all. Or no tails, whatever...

[Ephraim]

"And I honestly can't come to terms with a pet store profiting from rescue animals. Is the option there to adopt directly from the rescue org?"

How do they profit from this? Other than selling associated product.

[wolf_bluejay]

Years ago me and my wife bred chihuahua's. This was never done for the sake of a buck... The first few batches did go to a pet store. And much to my surprise, they would not take them without an "inspection". They shop owner came out to the house, met the dogs and looked at what we had for the pups. As well, he was very clear that they would not take the dogs until 10 weeks (not that we wanted them to go sooner).

The only reason we stopped going through the pet store was the fact that the pet store was not to particular on who they would SELL them to. The last 2 batches we sold ourselves so we could screen the potential buyers. To this day (8 years later) we have most of those that bought stay in contact.

These dogs were bred not for the money, but becuase raising little pups can be rewarding. And most stores WILL NOT BUY FROM MILLS. Usually if word gets around that they sell anything from a puppy mill, there business is over. It is just not worth it for a store to loose most of it's business to dave a few hundred bucks. Think about the way you buy fish, do you see any stores wanting to buy cyanide caught fish?


All I am getting at, is that the stores are mostly quite good, and most breeders do it because the love doing it. I hate to say it, but most of the problems out there are from irresponsible BUYERS. We turned away 3 times as many people as we actually sold to. Far too many people see a cute puppy, buy it, and then are unable to correctly care for it.
I don't blame the stores, or the breeders. How many times have there been complaints about some store selling a fish that would not work in someone's tank, and everyone blames the store. What about the guy buying the fish without doing a little research FIRST. Same goes for dogs. I have never seen a store keep a huge dog in a pen for any length of time, but yet I have a 150 lbs dog living next door to me in a yard that is 15' X 20' and never let out.
Let's put some blame where it belongs, there is a reason that all of these "rescue" groups exist in the first place. And they rarely have to "rescue" from a pet store.