Just about had it now!!!

[fkshiu]

My guess is also crud stuck in the LR and/or sand. Either that or it's your source water if you're not using RO/DI.

And Chin is correct - focusing on softies/LPS won't be the end of the world.

[Delphinus]

Honestly, I can see where he is coming from. I have a tank that has a persistent, inexplicable nitrate problem, and it is frustrating. I even run a sulfur reactor on this tank and due to problem after problem with the reactor it has yet to put a dent in the nitrates. Water changes can only go so far, short of doing a 100% water change you only put a dent into the levels and even then when they bounce right back up within a week, you're left scratching your head. I am pretty close to tearing the tank down because of this problem. So I understand perfectly where his frustration is coming from. 60ppm NO3 is up there.

I've got one more question - well two actually. Do you have sand in this tank, and would you consider switching to barebottom? Because I'm starting to wonder that part of my problem on my tank is the fact that I have sand. 110g tank, 60lbs of aragonite sand in the main display, plus a remote DSB with another 60lbs of aragonite. In fact ... I'm not sure but I think I really started with the nitrate problem after the RDSB got moved over from a different tank (that also had nitrate problems - but then that tank also had my ritteri in it, which is another thing the two tanks have in common). The RDSB never did a thing to reduce nitrates and now I wonder if that's actually part of my current problem. Calfo whoo ding ding you rock!

[findingnemo1]

The frustration and coming to an end is the fact that i wanted sps. I have spent alot of money on them and they are all just dying. The softies were fine with the higher nitrates.

The skimmer i did figure out. I have gotten about 1/2 a cup in a couple days. So that is doing its job.The last straw was hte confusa that we got. It was great(Snappy can comment on that one...lol) And slowly it lost all its colour and now it is receding from top down.And thats how they have all gone. But yet the acroporas are all coloured up and pretty

The sand was rinsed and rinsed and rinsed some more. And it is only about 2 inches. Not nearly as deep as the one we used to have.Have tested the ammonia about a week ago and there was nothing.

And Delphinus is right. You just get sick of the water changes and still can' get it to drop. When it seems like everything you do is right and this is what happens. I was going to add the denitrator but from the sounds of it that doesn't work either. As the same with the deep sand bed...

Beats me. Just sucks to watch all the corals die and there seems to be nothing you can do about it.

[kooma]

I am no expert that's for sure... but I fixed my Nitrate problem with two simple things.

1) I threw out my existing food(s) (everything, flakes, pellets, seaweed, etc) and remaining bucket of salt that I used for water changes.

2) I replaced with new top of the line products recommended in various threads for no nitrate, phosphates etc. My personal choices were:
- Ocean Nutrition for the food
- Red Sea Coral Pro Salt
- Coral Frenzy for the corals

I cut back feedings to every 3rd day and 25% water changes every week. I did not add anything to the water other then a bit of food and the new water for changes.


I might have just got luckly but I was at zero nitrates within 3 weeks and have been there since March 2007.


I'm guessing my problem was old food and old salt......


Well that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Delphinus]

I wouldn't pass on the idea of a denitrator even though I have problems with mine. The theory is sound, it should work. My problems come from that I'm trying to adapt something that wasn't really designed to be a sulfur reactor. It was drawing in air at one point which killed off the anaerobic bacteria, it has a bad flange that leaks under the slightest bit of pressure, etc.

Another idea is to try a coil denitrator - it will cost you about $20 in parts so it really wouldn't hurt just to try it and see where things go. Albert has some in his store, so you can ask him to show you one maybe. There's also a thread on Canreef where "howdy20012002" documented the build process.

Probably what happens is the nitrates just get bound in the rock and sand ... until you have a mechanism that proactively reduces nitrates it will likely be a problem that persists for a while.

Hearing advice from me, while I'm suffering the same problem, might be a bit of a "pot calling the kettle black" so - forgive me if this does seem odd, but here are some suggestions I can come up with. Whether they're good or not .. well .. who knows.. but, these are the things I'm considering:

- denitrator (as discussed)

- remove the sand (sell anything that requires sand - conches, etc.)

- consider swapping out some rock and replacing with new. Sell off part of your rock, or put it in a rubbermaid with some SW and a heater and a powerhead and let it sit there for a few months. (This is called "cooking" your rock - it's supposed to be a good way to rejuvenate rock which may be "haggard" - which - yours and mine - with levels like these, probably is the case).

- Zeovit is supposed to reduce nitrate and phosphates. If you're considering trying this anyhow, maybe this is a good opportunity to put the method to the test and see how it measures out.

- Set up a refugium and actively grow/prone macros. Chaeto, caulerpa, you name it. Get a bright light so it grows fast and start sucking up those nutrients.

There's definitely something askew here, it's just a question of finding it and correcting it. It definitely IS possible to have a tank with nitrates <10, most people don't seem to have to deal with a problem of this magnitude, so it's just a question of finding the right groove. We can beat this!!

[trilinearmipmap]

I had some nitrate problems due to overfeeding, the nitrates were about 5 to 10 range, this was earlier this year.

I started adding sugar, went to barely detectable nitrates on the Salifert test, accompanied by much improved skimmate production.

My understanding of how sugar works is bacteria feed on the sugar, the bacterial population locks up nitrates and phosphates, then the bacteria get skimmed out by the skimmer.

I started adding 1/8 or 1/4 tsp of sugar daily in a 120 gallon (I forget which) and gradually increased it to 3/4 tsp daily. Lately I have slacked off and just add 1 tsp every few days when I remember.

Adding sugar is easy and worth trying. I saw no bad effects on my corals though I suggest starting slow and gradually adjusting the sugar dose.

[Reefer Rob]

I'm going to out on a limb here and say I think it's your sand. In my 180G that's been running since January I've gone to 1" of sand for aesthetics that I gravel vac once a month or so. Looking back, the only thing sand has ever done in my tanks is increase nitrates. The more sand I had, the more nitrates I had.

In my last tank I run an remote DSB and had 20 ppm nitrates. After I took it off-line they went to 10 ppm within a week.

With 2"s of sand you would be safe to suck out 1" and gravel vac the rest. Guaranteed you're going to get a ton of crud out of there

[bv_reefer]

-did u try siphoning out some of the detritus on ur sand bed or detritus and waste under live rock crevices? fish tend 2 spill uneaten food,spill it,drop it, and disturb it all the time.

-another common tip i've heard iz arranging a loose formation system
for ur live rock but it looks like u alredy got that down!

-well anyways don't let nitrates spoil ur hobby! u've already got soo far!

[midgetwaiter]

I'd take a look at the sand for sure. The sand bed debate is up there with politics and religion but I don't think anyone can argue that there are people out there with sand beds and nitrate problems, For some reason nobody can figure the beds aren't working right and are probably contributing to issuesby trapping crud.

The other thing to look at is the fuge, what kind of growth are you getting in there? From my experience a cheato fuge that is really working well is the best nitrate / phosphate removal tool there is. To get it really working you need to put a little work into it though. A good goal would be having good enough growth that you can remove half your cheato and have it replenish in 10 to 14 days. To do that you need some good lighting, Philip's Daylight CFs work good with reflectors, and you MUST dose iron.

[andresont]

I second the idea of sand being a trap for detritus. Just get rid of a little bit every time you do a water change.
I 've gone BB and my ORP went up 60 points in one week. That tells me that sand bed takes a lot of oxygen. Also with BB it is so easy to syphone all out when doing water change so staff has no chance to decay.