can't maintain alkalinity

[SuperFudge]

Daryll,

Im gonna head out on a limb and disagree with some here.
There is definatly something else wrong, The reactor the size of the one you have will have no problem maintaining alk in a 300g system packed with SPS. Let alone a 120.
Your Reactor is an Alkalinity reactor...i dont even know why they call it a ca reactor.

It is much easier to raise alk with the reactor than it is calcium, they both come out of it in certain ratio`s. Alk being the major portion.

Most systems will see their alk top out long before they reach the calcium they wish to see, using a reactor..as is the case with my system.

My alk gets so high, i have temorarily shut the reactor down.
I will hit an alk of high 4`s meq/l long before a Ca of 400 is hit.
This is why many will also use a calcium additive to try and boost Ca without the added alk, this is why i have to run Kalkwasser aswell.
The reverse is true for Kalk, though it adds both aswell.

-What is the Ph Coming out of the reactor ?
- what is the Ca coming out of the reactor ?
- what is the alk coming out of the reactor ?
- what is your current effluent rate ?
- what is your current bubble count ?
-is the recirc pump on the reactor running ?

You mention fiddling with different rates...are you leaving it 48 hrs before the tank test is done ?
If the alk is low (out of the reactor) and the PH is above 6.5, then the only adjustment needed is more co2.



If we determine a few of these answers, we will find were the problem lies.

Marc.

[marie]

Originally Posted by SuperFudge

Daryll,

Im gonna head out on a limb and disagree with some here.
There is definatly something else wrong, The reactor the size of the one you have will have no problem maintaining alk in a 300g system packed with SPS. Let alone a 120.
Your Reactor is actually an Alkalinity reactor...i dont even know why they call it a ca reactor.

It is much easier to raise alk with the reactor than it is calcium, they both come out of it in certain ratio`s. Alk being the major portion.

Most systems will see their alk top out long before they reach the calcium they wish to see, using a reactor..as is the case with my system.

My alk gets so high, i have temorarily shut the reactor down.
I will hit an alk of high 4`s meq/l long before a Ca of 400 is hit.
This is why many will also use a calcium additive to try and boost Ca without the added alk, this is why i have to run Kalkwasser aswell.
The reverse is true for Kalk, though it adds both aswell.

-What is the Ph Coming out of the reactor ?
- what is the Ca coming out of the reactor ?
- what is the alk coming out of the reactor ?
- what is your current effluent rate ?
- what is your current bubble count ?
-is the recirc pump on the reactor running ?

If we determine a few of these answers, we will find were the problem lies.

Marc.

That's why I think there is some precipitation happening. he could be bumping both levels up so high by adding so much that he is knocking alk out of the solution.
Sometimes it's good to get back to basics, stop running the reactor, bring both calcium and alk back to where they should be and start over slowly with the reactor

[SuperFudge]

I agree marie,

But he hasnt listed his current effluent values...i didnt want to say shut it down if that isnt the source of the low values.

Since this is the reverse of what happens with most reactors, im thinking its dialed in incorrectly or...a something totally outside the reactor that are the culprit that havent been mentioned yet.

-heavy stocking ?
-small or inconsistant water changes ?
-low alk salt, wich already has been determined as part of the problem.
-overfeeding ?

[fishface]

here's some numbers for you Marc,

-What is the Ph Coming out of the reactor ? 6.3
-what is the Ca coming out of the reactor ? off the chart
-what is the alk coming out of the reactor ? waaaay off the chart
-what is your current effluent rate ? 30 drp
-what is your current bubble count ? 34 bpm
-is the recirc pump on the reactor running ? and yes

just outta curiosity, what's general parameters we might expect from a properly adjusted reactor? i understand there's a lot of variables but are there any general guidelines here?


-heavy stocking ? i wish
-small or inconsistant water changes ? 12g every 2 weeks, consistantly
-low alk salt, wich already has been determined as part of the problem. true this...
-overfeeding? not out of the realm of possibility...

i'm starting to get the picture here...but i'm just not sure of the fix on my own.


thanks again for your help you guys, it's very much appreciated!

[Jason McK]

I'm taging a long as I run the same problems as Darryl

[SuperFudge]

Originally Posted by Jason McK

I'm taging a long as I run the same problems as Darryl

What are your effluent values and reactor rates Jason ?

[Jason McK]

Originally Posted by SuperFudge

What are your effluent values and reactor rates Jason ?

Not sure. have to get home and test

J

[Reefer Rob]

Jason, you mentioned adding Boraxo, I've never heard of that. Is that for boron? Won't that throw you KH readings off?

[Jason McK]

Originally Posted by Reefer Rob

Jason, you mentioned adding Boraxo, I've never heard of that. Is that for boron? Won't that throw you KH readings off?

Borate, and sort of. But the addition of Borate will help in maintaining the PH stability. Straight Baking Soda tends to allow the carbonates to become exhausted leaving a carbonate starved water causing a drop in PH and then and increased in carbonate demand. The addition of Boraxo will increase the stability and make the effects longer lasting

BTW the actual mix is A&H 4 Boraxo 1

J

[SuperFudge]

Daryl,


The numbers look fine.

I would tweak it a bit, and gave a couple suggestions at the bottom of the post to do this...but before doing it...there seems to be something else that is the problem.

Looking at the numbers youve posted, the rates should have been adequate for a well stocked tank im sure.
What you are being left with is telling me there is waay to high of alk consumption...while CA is only having a moderate to low demand.

I noticed in another thread you are currently using the blu coral method..
Correct me if im wrong, but this requires that you feed quite heavily.
If the skimmer is not keeping up to the additional bioload, the alk will drop considerably as a result...while the Ca remains normal.
Has a low alk only been a problem since the new feeding method ?

I bet between the salt and heavy feedings, this is whats giving you the skewed parameters.

Can you wet skim with your current skimmer ?

If you are set on using the current salt, and want to try and get a bit more out of the reactor, I would increase effluent until ph has raised to 6.6-6.7 in the reactor.....probably closer to an effluent rate of a drop per second.
If ph is still climing beyond within the reactor (after a day or two) then add only co2 until this comes back down to 6.6-6.7.
When this stabilizes..48 hrs after last tweaking ,test.
Adjust again the same way if more is needed...monitor calcium to make sure this isnt increasing too much.

Marc.