Advice on Nitrate/Phosphate problems

[reeferaddict]

Here's how I keep my DSB fresh.... Engineer Goby, Brittle Stars, Sand Sifting stars, Sand sifting snails and about 30 or 40 Cerith snails... I have no phosphates... nitrates down to <10ppm with the help of my biodenitrator, and not a spec of algae to be seen anymore... Christy will attest to that... Corraline is growing almost TOO much... and I finally have good polyp extension AND growth... And I feed what most of you would deem as too much... my fish are fat and healthy... Oh and did I mention that I'm getting some of the most spectacular colours I have seen?

DSB or BB is a difference in philosophy and approaches... there is no ONE way to do things in this hobby. Yes I would agree that DSB is more work and more $$$, but I love the look, and the animals that live in the bed... they make the whole ecosystem more interesting and like nature IMHO.

I am in the midst of setting up a 37g frag tank that will be BB just for the maintenance aspect, so it's not that I'm not open minded. Just a matter of preference IMO...

[Moogled]

If I were to reframe this "debate", I think most of us agree on this:

A DSB is indeed beneficial for the reef aquarium tank and has alot of perks. However, given the lack of resources in Calgary (Canada, even) to create such an environment, a barebottom tank seems like a much more sensible and practical choice.

Me and Albert don't disagree with the idea of a sandbed in itself, but rather we take into context what we have and don't have and then state our positions from there on.

[Reefer Rob]

I regularly blast my tank with a turkey baster, and I would say I usually get more detritus off my live rock than from my sand bed. Detritus should be consumed by the sand bed inhabitants, there sure seems to be a lot of action there in my tank. A labyrinth of worm tunnels and other little unidentified (at least by me) creatures- definitely one of the more fascinating areas of of my tank.
It's amazing where a little question about nutrient reduction can take us

[Reefer Rob]

So Chin, in your house analogy your skimmer is what... an outhouse

[molybdenumman]

So getting back to my problem. I have had my sandbed (~3in) for 2.5 years. Could it be at the end of its life cycle/usefullness?

I'll be honest, the esthetics of the bb tank frighten me. I believe (mostly my wife) I would rather continue with a sandbed. What is the best way to clean up my sandbed and get my tank back to a prosperous moneysink?

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by molybdenumman

So getting back to my problem. I have had my sandbed (~3in) for 2.5 years. Could it be at the end of its life cycle/usefullness?

I'll be honest, the esthetics of the bb tank frighten me. I believe (mostly my wife) I would rather continue with a sandbed. What is the best way to clean up my sandbed and get my tank back to a prosperous moneysink?

Its hard to say without seeing it.But if its grey colored ontop its toast.Or take your hand and wave it over the sand bed.Just hard enough to disturb the surface.If alot of crap comes up when you do this its time to change.
I have what was a 2" sand bed( flow and goby have piled it in places and made BB in others)I do water changes each week,and I'll spread the sand out again before syphoning.This stirs the crap up into the warer column along with turkey basting the rocks.When I syphon I get alot of it out.If its realy bad I'll set up the aqua clear and let it run with a sponge for a couple hrs before taking the water out.

[Reefer Rob]

So, your nitrates and phosphates have been OK up untill the last couple of monthes? Have you always had enough flow to keep detritus from settling on your sandbed? Any missing livestock? (sorry I had to ask) One thing you could try is siphoning off the top 1/2" of your sand and replacing it with clean sand (maybe a bit more to increase the total depth) Seems hard to believe your sandbed would be at the end of it's life already.

[Chin_Lee]

Regardless of who poops first and what eats the poop, the secondary poop eater will still poop something out in the end. We are hoping that the amount of nutrients in the secondary poop is substantially less than the first poop which in turn is substantially less that the raw food that was first consumed. The poop eating chain can continue as long as you have the right organisms that enjoys eating its neighbor's poop. And the key word is the "right" organisms. Does anybody know what are the right organisms to form this wonderful poop chain of poop eaters? I have my doubts that anybody does but even if you know what they are, are you able to acquire them in the correct proportion to faciliate chain poop eating?
As much as I enjoy DSB's au naturel look, its only logical to go BB UNLESS....
a) you are assured and guaranteed that you have seeded your DSB with the correct organisms AND
b) you have given the organisms the time it needs to propagate within your new DSB to accomodate the bio-load of your tank or you increase your bioload very slowly in order to allow the organisms in the sand to increase accordingly

Here is something that I had written previously in a post regarding the pros and cons of DSB and BB.

if you are contemplating on BB or substrate, go BB first. If you still don't like it after a few months, then add substrate. Otherwise its a PITA to do it the other way around.
I concur with the BB supporters - crud is inevitable and I feel that sand just hides it really well. some critters in your live sand will eat some of the crud but you will never have enough critters to sustain an aquarium environment's bio-load.
I can relate to this theory by this scenario - imagine yourself and your entire family being stuck in your house without any methods in which to remove your biological waste but a mysterious hand will continuously put food and water into your house to keep you alive. You are real happy for the most part because there's the big screen TV, computer, workout gym, various boardgames etc. However everyone dreads having to go to the bathroom but when they do, how many critters will be needed to live with you in your house to continuously eat and remove all that biological waste in your house? HOWEVER if that same mysterious hand can come in with a plastic tube and suck out all that biological waste, I think it will be somewhat ........ alright.