Camera & Lense Recommendation

[reeferaddict]

Originally Posted by TheReefGeek

I am definately leaning more towards Canon now, especially with the vertical grip information.

Good info on the sigma, i'll let you know once I figure out what the heck I am ordering. (will be within the next week or two so I get it in time for my honeymoon)

What about flashes for canon? Do you have one you recommend? There is a knock off brand Sakor

They Canon EF 70-200mm F4 L USM, does this have image stabilization though? I will be doing mostly handheld photography, more than tripod.

My use of the camera is for aquarium pictures, and nature pictures primarily.

Rory - the 70-200 f4 L doesn't have IS... that being said IS will do nothing for your aquarium shots as it compensates for camera shake not subject movement. Same goes for nature shots. IS is AWESOME when you are shooting a static subject at 200 mm and want to hand hold using a shutter speed of less than 1/200. No matter what, get a tripod, I recommend a Monfrotto 055 with a ball or grip head. Don't waste your money on a cheaper one, these ones fold and splay into any configuration you can imagine and pack nicely.

I went with the 580EX and 430EX flashes. Again on the expensive side, but ETTL II works superbly and the through the lens communication totally takes the guesswork out of flash photography. If you get a 3rd party flash, Sigma is the only one worth it's salt, the rest are junk... ask away, anything I can do to help & I will.... I read up for a month before I bought and had the added experience of buying a sub par system before that to know what I really wanted.

[TheReefGeek]

I appreciate the help, thank you so much.

This may be a dum question, but why do you need two flashes?

The IS on the 17-85 will help with hand-held aquarium pictures won't it?
For nature shots, I mean walking/hiking, and I see landscapes and animals I want to shoot, won't the IS be a help there?

The price difference between the 70-300 IS and the 70-200 F4 L is very little, which would you recommend then, the 70-200 even though there is no IS? My other lense would likely be the 17-85 IS.

Maybe I am missunderstanding what IS really does, can you explain?

Do you have any experience using extension tubes for macro photography without an actualy macro lense?

[Ruth]

Yup I would be willing to sell my lens as well for a good price if reeferaddicts deal falls through. I think you would be way better off to just save up and buy better quality lenses though.

[TheReefGeek]

Ruth, how much would you want for your lense?

[reeferaddict]

Originally Posted by Ruth

Yup I would be willing to sell my lens as well for a good price if reeferaddicts deal falls through. I think you would be way better off to just save up and buy better quality lenses though.

No need to commit here - I was just offering up a cheap way to 300mm...

[reeferaddict]

The only dumb question is the one you never ask....

I got two flashes because they work as a master/slave combination so that you can have one off camera to provide lighting from a different angle to cut down on glare and provide fill flash etc. Straight on flash photography throws harsh shadows and highlights that scream "FLASH SHOT". I also got an ST-E2 flash transmitter so I can use both units off camera as slaves wirelessly. Both are about the same except the 430 will only act as a slave and the 580 is more powerful and will act as a master or a slave.

OK... on to IS...

When you are shooting, to eliminate blurry photos due to camera shake the recommended shutter speed is 1/focal length. So if you are shooting a 300 mm lens your shutter speed should be less than 1/300. This has absolutely no bearing on "stopping motion" in your photographs, this is just to eliminate blur due to shaky hands including the most steady of hands. If you have IS you can take the same shot at 1/30 or 1/60 allowing you to use a smaller aperature so you can get a larger depth of field or to be able to get the shot using available light instead of using a flash.

Here's where IS conflicts with moving subjects - To "stop motion" in a photograph you have to use a shutter speed of at least 1/60 or 1/125, even higher if you have a fast moving subject. As you can see, IS will let you shoot at shutter speeds lower than that even with a long lens, but the lower shutter speeds will make anything moving in your frame turn out blurry. I would learn to shoot without IS ... experiment with it on the 17-85 lens and you will quickly learn when to use it and when not to. Having said that, I would definitely go with the 70-200 4L. The lens is PRO quality, excellent build and more dust and weather resistant, as well as having flourite elements and low dispersion glass as all "L" lenses have. All these factors add up to superior contrast, sharp and fast autofocus, and almost a total elimination of flare. I have to warn you though, "L" glass is almost as addictive as reefkeeping!

As for macro, I don't yet have a true Macro lens. I am leaning towards either the EF-S 60 2.8 macro or the one Ruth has the EF 100 2.8, but now I see Sigma has come out with a 70mm 2.8, and I used to have a Tamron 90mm 2.8, a very sharp macro lens indeed! I think I will stick with Canon though as both those lenses are compatible with Canon's ring lights and serious macro work will require a flash so you can shoot at smaller aperatures to have greater depth of field. The shots I put up of the Powder Blue tang were using a 135 2.8 prime with an extension tube. The extension tubes work great with a prime lens to get macro shots. All they do is lengthen the distance between the lens and the film plane to allow for a closer focusing distance. For example the lens I used for those shots normally has a minimum focusing distance of 4 feet or so, slap on an extension tube and I can focus down to 4 inches or so but lose the ability to focus to infinity. As you can imagine, lighting an object only 4 inches from the front of the lens can provide some lighting challenges, especially with a flash head that sits up on a camera's hot shoe so far away from the lens... this is why I have flashes that can be mounted off camera and why I'll eventually get a Macro Ring Light flash unit.

BTW - the built in flash on the 20D will be adequate for probably close to 75% of your flash shots, and you can get cheap slave units to augment that until you can afford a bigger flash...

[TheReefGeek]

Great info, well explained, I actually followed it all!

Ok, so a flash is not necessarily a "must have" accessory to start. That might help offset the thousands you are going to cost me in L glass now.

Of course I do have some further questions now!

1. Can you describe how you take macro shots of your tank? Is your lens right up the glass? Are you handheld or tripod? Do you use flash's or is the aquarium light enough? Can a macro extension tubes be used on a zoom lense, or just a prime?

2. If you were just starting, and wanted to take some nice macro shots of your tank, have a decent travel/walk-around lense, and also have a decent telephoto for outdoors, which 2-3 lenses would you recommend?

I think I am leaning towards a Rebel XT, the savings compared to a 20D or 30D I will put towards better glass. I figure in a year or two, if I am able to max out the Rebel XT and it is holding me back, I can upgrade to the latest and greatest body, and use my existing glass. Whereas paying more for a body will mean worse glass, so down the road upgrading will be even more $$. Sound like a decent plan?

And this all started off with "honey, our digital camera doesn't have enough zoom"!!! Just like reefkeeping, "honey, those clownfish sure look cute".

[reeferaddict]

Rory you won't regret the XT, in fact you may never feel the need to upgrade...

There are many ways to do Macros depending on what you're shooting. I really try to shoot with available light as you get much more natural looking shots. That being said, even with the amount of light we shower our tanks with, it pales in comparison to shooting outside, even on an overcast day. Your camera's metering system will quickly make that apparent. Using a flash pointed directly into the tank will give you reflections as well when using a flash so what I do when using flash is to set my flashes up at 45 or so degree angles to the tank glass to eliminate glare. You will need to compensate for the awful colour of a flash with your white balance settings, or shoot in RAW mode so you can post process this later on. If I am shooting a coral, I tend to set up on a tripod, frame the shot and use a remote shutter release, using as small an aperature as I can along with the fastest shutter speed possible. Up to 800 ISO gives me great results, even when blowing images up to huge sizes. (I have a printing business so I can make prints up to 4 feet wide - original image quality is important and has been of no concern using either my present 20D or my previous 6.3MP Rebel). When shooting fish or any other moving target, I ixnay the tripod, hunt and chase them along the front of the glass and shoot lots of shots hoping to get "the one".... this is the biggest advantage digital has over film IMO. As for distance, it really depends on your lens and composition you are looking for. You CAN lean right up against the glass as you are focusing beyond it anyways. Extension tubes work better with primes and are pretty much useless at focal lengths less than 50mm. You CAN use them on some zooms, but usually only at it's maximum focal length.

There is no ONE way to do Macro work... it all depends on lighting & subject along with the desired depth of field and working distance. The closer you are to your subject the more light you will need and less depth of field you will have. For example let's say you are shooting a coral with a 135mm lens and a working distance of 2 feet using an extension tube. Your normal tank lighting will allow you to shoot at 1/160 at ISO 800 and f4... Your depth of field might only be 1/4 of an inch, so if your coral is 2 inches from front to back and you focus near the front, only 1/8 of the coral will be in focus... if you want more depth of field you will have to add more light, stop down the lens, and/or increase the working distance between the film plane and the subject. You may need to use a lens with a longer focal length and increase the working distance if adding more light and/or stopping down isn't an option... sorry if I'm going in circles here... just trying to point out that there is more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to taking pics... the beauty of digital is being able to see right away if you got the shot or not...

If I could only have 3 lenses on a budget... hmmm....

1). The 17-85 is a great economical beginning... gives you a decent wide angle, and probably the best "kit" lens Canon makes. IS is a bonus as well...

2). The 70-200 4.0L unless you can afford the 70-200L or the 70-200L IS. These 3 lenses are the most popular and highly regarded in Canon's line.

3). Any prime 2.8 or faster between 50 and 150mm. Once you see the sharpness and contrast of a prime - not even an expensive prime, you won't use your zooms as much. "L" quality primes are even better yet.

Once you have those, don't bother buying another lens unless it's a 2.8 or faster... the exception being the 300 4.0 IS... another GRAND... lol.

[TheReefGeek]

Thanks so much!

Are there any particular retailers you would recommend? US or Canada or Ebay etc?

[reeferaddict]

I got my camera and lens kit at Robinson's Online Store on eBay... they're actually in Calgary. URGalaxy or Hong Kong Direct on eBay both gave tremendous service. Use Adorama to price compare, and look for private deals from sellers with positive feedback. Look for auctions that end at weird times, and not during peak periods like weekday evenings and weekend afternoons. eBayers can be wierd, and start bidding wars, so be patient, it took me over 2 months to round out my system. Identify what you are going to buy, buy one item at a time and bid once only specifying your maximum bid. Set your price and eventually you will win as long as your price is realistic. Americans are particularly hard to deal with, every private deal except one I did with an American cost me extra on this side as they are hesitant to send anything across the border and declare as a gift or sample, not that they are obligated to do this, but all the Hong Kong sellers are masters at minimizing customs costs. Whatever you do... use Paypal to pay and complete the transaction on eBay... you have buyer protection that way...