Let's talk about cleaning crews

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Canadbis

Thanks Tony
That clears things up a bit.
I had read that there should be 1 snail for every 2 Gallons?
what does everyone think about that.

That's BS. More like one snail for every 10-15 gallons, pending on the severity of your algae problem. Truth be told though, you're probably better off getting a good magnet cleaner...

Edit: my personal feelings on this are that cleaning crew stocking recommendations are the biggest scam in livestock. I can't think of a single case where such a high density maintains itself past the first four weeks.

[TheReefGeek]

And much cheaper to buy a sea hare that will mow down all your algae in no time if you need it done.

[Canadbis]

Great discusion Albert!
SO...if you WERE going to put a cleaning crew in (whether you feel you should or not)
What would be the best suggestions then
Lets say 33G setup.
48lbs Live rock,yada, yada

[TheReefGeek]

I would throw in 10 snails, and 3 hermits.

[G1GY]

I realy like the look of Hermit crabs................. In someone else's reef.

I've had a few and reallized in a matter of hours that they are little reef terrorists with an agenda to wage war on me!

One Emerald crab and a few hitchhiker filter feeding crabs, but other than that only snails for me.

[midgetwaiter]

The changes I've made in my system the past few months have drastically lowered my need for hermits and the like. I have to actively feed the little buggers I still have in there. Even with a frogfish living in the fuge and dumping god knows how much protein based waste into the water from his feeders.

Things like improving flow patterns, a good skimmer setup wet and using stuff like macro algae and zoanthids to suck nutrients out of the water seem to make the difference. In comparison my other nano reef with the sand bed and the bio filter still has a bit of algae going. It reminds me more of my puffer tank where nitrate and phosphate are always a problem due to the food they eat.

As much as I used to argue that Albert was advocating an unnecessarily stringent BB / Berlin style I've found it really works. I even had an appropriate sized magnet cleaner ordered into work for me but I'm finding that I just don't need the thing now.

[albert_dao]

*fanfare please*

... Anyway, Matt, your best bet is to probably just grab yourself an emerald crab or two. As far as traditional cleaners goes, I'd skimp on stocking them unless you really had an overblown diatom problem. I'm going to recommend what I tell all the other new reefer-heads starting out, "add 4-6 Trochus or Cerith snails, you can always get more later if you feel you need them." Most people don't get more.

But yeah, for people who keep a shallow sand bed at the bottom of their tanks, I suspect the same principles apply. You could probably skimp on regular crabs and snails and instead opt for more effective detrivores such as small conches, certain brittle stars and possibly a tiger tail (assuming your bed has enough surface area to support one). All that aside, none of these guys have anything on a gravel vac used weekly. Go ahead, try it, take a gravel vac to your sand for five minutes. $10 says it will put your cucumbers to shame

[danny zubot]

Whatever would people mount frags on though without dead snail shells???

Actually .... in all seriousness .... friends don't let friends glue frags to snail shells!! Isn't a snail's death sad enough as it is? We don't need to make it a tragedy as well.

Who said anything about waiting til the snail is dead?

Seriously though. IMO, clean up crews are valuable, but its all relative to the rest of the tank inhabitants. For example, in Albert's tank there are a lot of tangs that probably promote tank cleanliness. Additionally, how well cured the live rock is, the amount of flow, size of skimmer and other filtration will all play a role in your waste levels, and thus determining the need for a cleanup crew. Albert's tank has good flitration, no sandbed and excessive compulsive tangs, so snails and hermits are not needed. Although, a peppermint or two could probably be put to good use.

On the topic of crew size, I agree that vendors over estimate the size of crew needed. Several times over the past couple of years I have attempted to elevate the size of my crew to the average standards of most vendors. What has happened every time is that through inter and intraspecific competition I end up with smaller "happier" crew. One that can be effectively sustained in my tank. Yet at any time, no matter the size of my crew, I/ve always had the same amount of algea on my glass, and none on my live rock, this is constant. My tank will sustain no more or less of a clean up crew than sum of its various food sources and territories.

Hope this made some sense, sorry for rambling!

[DanG]

Be careful if you decide to get cerith snails, I bought 3 of them and now have several hundred.