here it is

[Troy F]

Just a heads up. The admin over at reefcentral closed the thread to try cool things off. I believe that he would welcome the question again in a couple of days though I'm sure he'd prefer the question asked in a slightly different manner.

[DJ88]

Troy,

Have you spoken with John about that?

just curious. I don't need to post about it anymore.. Don't want to really.. I know what I am going to do.. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[titus]

Hello Guys,

A most sensitivie subject here. I haven't really read through "all" the posts about this topic on ReefCentral.

I do think this is a valid topic of discussion and am interested in whatever results anyone finds. However, I must admit I did feel all the questioning on Andy and IceCap did appear to be a bit harsh, as other than Canreef [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] , I don't know any other company (aquarium wise) would provide as courteous and rapid of a customer support as IceCap does, just like what Scott said.

So it's good that things are cooling down and let's see what the test results show.

Titus

[DJ88]

Titus,

I know it did get a bit harsh. That was not my intention. I just want to know the hard facts. I foudn a lot of people just kept saying the same things over again.. They are brighter.. I have seen it with my own eyes. Or so and so says they are brighter. To me that is no good for basing a decision about which puts out more light. Data does.

I have emailed IceCap asking the same questions about the ballasts I have asked elsewhere. The response I recieved today wasn't what I had asked for [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] and I have sent a reply explaining what I am about to do.

I will say that I am not impressed that so many people want answers and can't get them. We can find out about almost everything that is sold to us. Yet I can't find info on any VHO lighting. Tests, data whatever.

So I will be going at this as soon as possible. I will be ordering a light meter this weekend and start the tests in the new year with new lamps and daily measurements on my tank. I won't be making any statements about which is best in my opinon as I am not in a position to do this. Only the hard data I collect. The reader can make that decision for themselves. If Dana Riddle or Richard Harker want to look at it and make a statement I'd be honored.. lol [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

If anyone wants to lend a hand I welcome it. This is gonna be a bit costly but I think in the end it will be worth it.

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[StirCrazy]

well, I guess the reef central post is going to die. Titus I have to make clear it wasn't my intention to accuse or insult. I sent Andy 3 e-mails in the last 3 days and 2 privat messages on reef centrals system, and not oneof them was answered.. if he would have at least comee back with a "can you give me a few days to find the info you want" I would have been more than happy. and after reading througth the ice cap fourm I noticed I wasn't the only one that was ignored who was asking the same quiestions.. si I wrote whe I concidered a tact full and fact filled post. I never said they were a bad balast or that they had bad customer service. but it seams funny that jest when others were starting to voice suport for me then thread was closed.. it was alowed to stay running as long as people were bashing me though..
oh well just my observations I guess..

I am almost dome my readings from the overdrive test.. quite impressive so far

Steve

[Reefmaster]

metal halide metal halide metal halide...HEY. who put ANTHRAX on my cereal??

[Troy F]

Darren, yes, I spoke with John about the subject and voiced my concern over the fact that Steve had a very well thought out question. I mentioned that nothing had been done about the rude treatment of Steve and others. John's view (valid from his vantage point), is that had the question been posted in a less accusatory way, Andy may have contributed in a more appropriate way. I too believe that, given the right circumstances, he will reply with some information. To those of you interested, whether or not you do your own tests, I'd still give him a chance to answer.

I'm willing to bet that IceCap VHO ballasts will provide the same intesity that your standard VHO tar or electronic ballasts do. This is my guess. IceCap are reliable and are unmatched in varied application, this coupled with the extended bulb life has them a winning choice in my opinion. I look forward to hearing the truth on this and can't wait to see the results. I'm not so curious to spend money to find out [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] . Good luck guys. You've certainly stirred up a hornet's nest.

[Mushroom Boy]

Hi guys.

I stayed out of that post on RC. I feel the question is valid and is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed, however, IMO, it was asked in an inflamatory fashion. It was a train wreck waiting to happen after about the fifth response. The inflamatory nature of the post, in and of itself isn't a bad thing, and I'm not sure why the post was closed to tell you the truth (well, I suppose it's not too hard to figure out why it was closed really [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]). I'm looking forward to seeing what Darren comes up with.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

Love how they brought up "SUE" since that is the middle name of most American's

Ouch, that kind of stings BCReefer [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Delphinus]

Well .... my opinion means absolutely nothing, but here it is anyways.

The only thing I can think of to say is, even though I am certain that Icecap products are very nice and I'm sure anybody who uses them is very satisfied ... but when I can pick up a MH ballast for $50 (or less ... I picked up my 3 175W ballasts and my 1 250W ballast for $30 apiece when Home Depot decided to unload their stock) when the cheapest I can do for an Icecap up here in Canuckland is $260 .... 'nuff said.

Ok, so there will be some operational cost benefit, maybe I won't replace my bulbs as often, maybe my electricity bill is slightly less each month .... but frankly, I'm not unhappy paying that little extra to get that "shallow water shimmer" in my tank.

I'm sure Icecap is a nice product. And one day, when I have $300 to burn, maybe I'll go that way just to see what all the fuss is about with these guys.

I was talking with a friend who runs a MO outfit here in Canuckland and he is so totally sold on Icecap. When I mentioned that I once read on the web an opinion that "Icecap fans were not a recommended product" my friend scoffed at me like I was making this up or something. How dare I question Icecap? What a fruitcake I must be.

Again, talking about $30-50 for "conventional" MH ballast versus $300 for Icecap MH ballast, that thing better be hacking into my utility companies billing database giving me a rebate before I see any cost benefit to going that way.

Ok, so there may be benefits to going eballast, and they are probably quite legitimate. My question is, is it worth the 600% premium to pay on the setup costs? It probably IS worth it for some. But for me, the setup costs speak volumes to me.

Like I said, maybe one day ("when my ship comes in") I'll be able to understand what all the fuss is about. Until then ... I remain broke.

[BCReefer]

I’m not an engineer but can someone explain how wattage affects ability to increase the overall depth of the tank. I currently have 175W MH with 5500 Lumens. Would a 250 W MH 5500 lumens be better or equal.

If they are equal what does the extra wattage provide me?

Mushroom Boy – hope you did not take that personally, I was just having some fun and pointing out how some people can really get their nickers in a knot and start over exaggerating things.
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