Ever feel really sad after visiting fish store? - Page 3

Potatohead · #21 03-15-2017, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myka

Well said Tim. Consumers rarely understand this. Consumers want the cheapest livestock around, and then whine and complain when the cheapest livestock is also in the poorest condition. Or even when a good business gets screwed on a poor shipment because it got too hot or too cold or was packaged poorly. People forget that most of these shipments are coming from third world countries, they are shipped in cheap, thin sytrofoam boxes that are often broken upon arrival, they are in transit usually for 24-48 hours, and they are shipped without heat packs because the country they leave is 30C! If you stop and think about it for a minute or two, it's not surprising that animals may arrive stressed!

Vote with your dollar people!

I already mentioned I would absolutely do this if it were possible, so where is it possible? I didn't realize it was an option up here. I have brought fish across the border before but it is a major hassle with customs so to find someone in Canada would be great.

TimT · #22 03-15-2017, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino

Well said Tim is your personal tank set up yet? It's also a really hard industry to make a go at.

No my personal tank is not set up yet as the power here is quite unstable. Lots of 1 minute power failures which can make the Korallia's run backwards. Until I get a UPS I won't be setting up. It's just going to be a 29gallon Biocube and a UPS will keep it running for days. LoL

You are correct in it being a hard industry to make a go of. Lots of people do stupid things and it costs $1000's in dead animals. I once had Cathay Pacific Airlines screw up a booking and an Aussie acro shipment sat in Hong Kong baking for 16hrs. Needless to say I have a collection of Aussie acro skeletons up to 8" across. Another time Cathay Pacific put a shipment in the cooler overnight(7hrs) because they were too cheap to heat the warehouse overnight. Warehouse was -4°c overnight while the cooler was only 4°C. Needless to say there was fish fertilizer made using Laboutei Fairy Wrasse, Scotts Fairy wrasse, Yellow and Blue Assessors etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animal-Chin

I've seen $600 6 inch cross hatch triggerfish in a 20 gallon tank lying on the bottom.

When Crosshatch triggers come in they are very shy and hide for at least a month, sometimes longer. Kinda similar to a Blue Throat Trigger. If the 20 gallon tank is on a central system then there is more than enough life support for the trigger.

Jakegr · #23 03-15-2017, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myka

Well said Tim. Consumers rarely understand this. Consumers want the cheapest livestock around, and then whine and complain when the cheapest livestock is also in the poorest condition. Or even when a good business gets screwed on a poor shipment because it got too hot or too cold or was packaged poorly. People forget that most of these shipments are coming from third world countries, they are shipped in cheap, thin sytrofoam boxes that are often broken upon arrival, they are in transit usually for 24-48 hours, and they are shipped without heat packs because the country they leave is 30C! If you stop and think about it for a minute or two, it's not surprising that animals may arrive stressed!

Vote with your dollar people!

That is definitely the other side of things! Consumers, if given the choice, will always trend towards the less expensive option. Fish stores need to stay in business and attract customers. I don't blame them for doing things to keep costs down.

That being said, I truly believe the entire industry (from supply to store) needs to be reformed. Animal welfare in the aquarium hobby is abysmal due to the supply chain. Similar stories have occurred in other sectors, ranging from puppy mills to the importation of exotic birds. The government needs to get involved and regulate the aquarium hobby in Canada, in my opinion. I doubt it will reform on it's own.

Poor animal welfare needs to be looked at independently of economics. It is no longer acceptable in today's society. The only reason the aquarium hobby has lagged behind others is that the general public do not perceive fish in the same way they do a puppy, but I think that gap is narrowing. If the industry doesn't improve welfare, I believe it will eventually be shut down.

I'm not blaming stores for this problem! It is a top to bottom issue that requires the entire industry to change it's format (many will think this is unrealistic I suspect). There are many positives, such as employment in developing countries, advancing fish husbandry, boosting local economies, etc. We just need to start looking out for the health and welfare of the animals that are the bottom of it all.

Everyone, please do not rip me to shreds over my opinion

Dash · #24 03-16-2017, 01:27 AM

I get that there is the business side of selling fish. I've driven out to every store in our area because I'm crazy about this wonderful new hobby. This is the first time I came away with such negative feelings. These guys were on death's doorstep, kept in tiny tanks. Not just the porcs but there was a dogface that was curled up and barely breathing, didn't react when 2 other fish started nosing at him. So yes, I will vote with my dollar & not shop there.

saltcreep · #25 03-16-2017, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakegr

That is definitely the other side of things! Consumers, if given the choice, will always trend towards the less expensive option. Fish stores need to stay in business and attract customers. I don't blame them for doing things to keep costs down.

Unfortunately this industry has seen a race to the bottom and with no end in sight. There is a huge distinction with keeping costs down and being successful.

Quote:

That being said, I truly believe the entire industry (from supply to store) needs to be reformed. Animal welfare in the aquarium hobby is abysmal due to the supply chain. Similar stories have occurred in other sectors, ranging from puppy mills to the importation of exotic birds. The government needs to get involved and regulate the aquarium hobby in Canada, in my opinion. I doubt it will reform on it's own.

The government does not have the resources to deal with this issue and it has been proven time and time again that the industry is unable to self regulate. Those that do will get left behind by those who don't. It's a sad fact, but the cold hard truth. There are many examples I can give from my previous time in this sector of the industry. Sadly, I still face similar issues with regulatory non-compliance in other parts of the industry.

Quote:

Poor animal welfare needs to be looked at independently of economics. It is no longer acceptable in today's society. The only reason the aquarium hobby has lagged behind others is that the general public do not perceive fish in the same way they do a puppy, but I think that gap is narrowing. If the industry doesn't improve welfare, I believe it will eventually be shut down.

I'm not blaming stores for this problem! It is a top to bottom issue that requires the entire industry to change it's format (many will think this is unrealistic I suspect). There are many positives, such as employment in developing countries, advancing fish husbandry, boosting local economies, etc. We just need to start looking out for the health and welfare of the animals that are the bottom of it all.

Everyone, please do not rip me to shreds over my opinion

Your opinion is extremely spot on. The only thing I would suggest and have been for years is that the solution is not top to bottom, but rather flipped the other way. This is what was suggested by a previous poster. Vote with your wallet. This is the fastest way to affect change. The stores and supply chains that will not change and operate in a more ethical manner would simply disappear.

I had the same conversation with David Vossler of MAC years and years ago. Appeal to the consumer, educate the consumer and force change at retail level. This would lead to changes all the way up the supply chain as each step would have to adapt or die.

Maybe it's too idealistic, but only now are there signs of coordinated efforts to educate the consumer.