High phosphates-using reactor and can't get them down

[LeanneP]

Originally Posted by tang daddy

Even after changing the filters you are getting bad tds this is odd as the ro membraine would be stripping the water clean one would think....

I am almost 💯% certain it's your water that is adding to the phosphates, you may want to try to add some nitrates and carbon source "slowly" to see if it helps bring down the phosphates. As Warriorcookie has mentioned he had to add nitrates in order for his phos to drop down as they play hand in hand dragging each other down.

So if you only have a lot of one and none of the other then that's where the imbalance is and alsolock your phos where it is and not allowing it to drop lower. Rowa phos will cost you and arm and leg if you have to change it weekly.

Maybe try a brightwell bio brick and add some nitrates to help bring your phos down. You can also try reef biofuel and wet skimming as a carbon source. Any adjustments you make do it slow and watch your tank close for any I'll effects.

Thanks for the info from everyone. The Culligan membrane is 2 years old and I did some reading and it is what takes out the phosphates not the rest of the filters. Even when it was new I think I was still at about 5 on the tds which is not really good enough so I am better off using the cheapo one that gives me 2 on the tds. I just assumed because it was a more expensive system it would give me better water but I guess us humans don"t need it that clean.

[LeanneP]

Originally Posted by Ryanerickson

He's talking about a carbon source not black charcoal for water clarity. A carbon source will feed bacteria. A example is np pro by aquaforest with this you would be feeding bacteria that will help reduce phosphates and nitrates your bacteria source would be aquaforest pro bio-s. I'm using aquaforest as a example there's many other carbon and bacteria products.

H Ryan, I have found the pro bio-s at J & l but it doesn't look like they carry the np pro. Just wondering where you get yours from? Would I need to dose anything else to get the tank balanced again? I have got my phosphates down to .5 now but I have been getting cyano off and on over the past year so I think that I do need to do what you and Warriordog have suggested to get the tank balanced again.

[Ryanerickson]

I get mine on amazon.com but I'm pretty sure jl will get it in soon as more aquaforest products are on there way right now.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by LeanneP

H Ryan, I have found the pro bio-s at J & l but it doesn't look like they carry the np pro. Just wondering where you get yours from? Would I need to dose anything else to get the tank balanced again? I have got my phosphates down to .5 now but I have been getting cyano off and on over the past year so I think that I do need to do what you and Warriordog have suggested to get the tank balanced again.

Aquariumdepot.ca carries NP Pro.

[maron6977]

If you want to get your PO4 down , use Fozdown . Contact TimT on forum. Mine were as high as 70 at one time . The stuff works instantly & way cheaper than GFO . Can't tell you how much I spent on that stuff .

Now my PO4 is down to .00 & quit using Fozdown a few weeks ago .

Now trying to raise back up !

[warriorcookie]

Products like Fozdown scare me. First off, you have to get the dosing 100%. Too much by accident is disastrous.

Second, any precipitate you don't pull out with filter socks settles in the rocks and what not. What happens to it over time? I've heard lots of anecdotal incidents to give me pause.


So far my experiment with dosing carbon, bacteria and NaNO3 has been wonderful. NO3 and PO4 are both verging on ULNS with no GFO and it's cheaper than even Fozdown. I'm certainly not the first to do it, just seems alot haven't caught on to keeping NO3 and PO4 BALANCED rather than just close to 0.

[TimT]

Originally Posted by warriorcookie

First off, you have to get the dosing 100%. Too much by accident is disastrous.

Since I make the Foz Down I thought I'd answer your questions.

You don't have to get the dose 100% accurate. Foz Down is a much safer concentration than other products on the market therefore it is much harder to overdose. What happens if you significantly overdose... you start to get a fine white dust forming on the bottom of the tank. This is the excess Foz Down binding with the alk in the water. You can vacuum it out if you choose to or leave it there. No ill effects either way.

Originally Posted by warriorcookie

Second, any precipitate you don't pull out with filter socks settles in the rocks and what not. What happens to it over time? I've heard lots of anecdotal incidents to give me pause.

When your using it in the correct dosage the flocs that settle out are not visible on the rocks or bottom of the tank. You don't need to try and remove them if you don't want to.

Nothing happens over time as they are inert because it's a one way chemical reaction. The same type of reaction that occurs when adding alkalinity mix to calcium mix. The flocs that form are totally inert unless you add them to Hydrochloric acid.

I've heard lots of anecdotal stories as well. The thing with anecdotal stories is that all the info is frequently not given so one can't make any valid deductions. As well, there are a lot of things that happen in a tank that people are not aware of. I have been using Foz Down in my acro system for a lot of years and not had any problems what so ever. It's a very safe and effective product that renders GFO reactors obsolete.

I am sure that as the hobby continues to mature there will be better methods that become available for nutrient export. Until then, Foz Down is the safest most cost effective method of Phosphate Control.

Cheers,
Tim

[warriorcookie]

Originally Posted by TimT

Since I make the Foz Down I thought I'd answer your questions.

You don't have to get the dose 100% accurate. Foz Down is a much safer concentration than other products on the market therefore it is much harder to overdose. What happens if you significantly overdose... you start to get a fine white dust forming on the bottom of the tank. This is the excess Foz Down binding with the alk in the water. You can vacuum it out if you choose to or leave it there. No ill effects either way.



When your using it in the correct dosage the flocs that settle out are not visible on the rocks or bottom of the tank. You don't need to try and remove them if you don't want to.

Nothing happens over time as they are inert because it's a one way chemical reaction. The same type of reaction that occurs when adding alkalinity mix to calcium mix. The flocs that form are totally inert unless you add them to Hydrochloric acid.

I've heard lots of anecdotal stories as well. The thing with anecdotal stories is that all the info is frequently not given so one can't make any valid deductions. As well, there are a lot of things that happen in a tank that people are not aware of. I have been using Foz Down in my acro system for a lot of years and not had any problems what so ever. It's a very safe and effective product that renders GFO reactors obsolete.

I am sure that as the hobby continues to mature there will be better methods that become available for nutrient export. Until then, Foz Down is the safest most cost effective method of Phosphate Control.

Cheers,
Tim

Thanks for the info Tim.

Not expecting you to give away the secret sauce's 11 herbs and spices, but I've always assumed Foz Down is a Lanthanum Chloride based product. I figured overdosing Foz Down would have the same effect as overdosing Lanthanum Chloride = Massive dip in Alk.

I agree on your point about anecdotal stories. Often, people jump to conclusions when the answer isn't clear.

I do like the idea of the product as I've spent far too much money on GFO over the years. I've recently stopped using GFO and just about gave Foz Down a try, but instead decided to go the bacterial route. This also carries risk of overdosing. Different strokes for different folks. Perhaps I'll try Foz Down some time in the future, feels like I've tried almost everything else in this hobby.