AcroPower - Thoughts?

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

One of these days I wish one of the reviewers would do something truly useful like take a coral, frag it in to evenly sized pieces, then grow them in identical setups with 'magic juice' dosed to one but not the other.

Last time I dosed amino acids the only thing I noticed was a sudden explosion of cyano bacteria. I'd be willing to give this stuff a shot, but I am highly suspicious of any product that promises what this review seems to have promised.

Amino's work, this isn't really up for debate. The thing about supplements, though, is that they only work if your corals/system are at peak health. It's sorta like health additives -- If you're fat, lethargic and eat Mc'Dicks everyday, extra vitamin C probably isn't going to help your case.

[Jakegr]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Amino's work, this isn't really up for debate. The thing about supplements, though, is that they only work if your corals/system are at peak health. It's sorta like health additives -- If you're fat, lethargic and eat Mc'Dicks everyday, extra vitamin C probably isn't going to help your case.

Whenever someone makes a claim like that, I have to say "show me the data"!

Personally, I don't take Reef Builders too seriously when they review products. I read their site all the time as they are great at showing off the latest and greatest aquarium gear, but since they accept advertising dollars from all over I do not think they can be considered an unbiased source of information. They did spark an interest in me about AcroPower though, so they are good at what they do!

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Jakegr

Whenever someone makes a claim like that, I have to say "show me the data"!

Personally, I don't take Reef Builders too seriously when they review products. I read their site all the time as they are great at showing off the latest and greatest aquarium gear, but since they accept advertising dollars from all over I do not think they can be considered an unbiased source of information. They did spark an interest in me about AcroPower though, so they are good at what they do!

Well we are talking about amino acids here...not something that can be considered as "snake oil". I have used aminos and have seen crazy polyps from SPS (can't comment on growth cause I always had great luck with growth anyway; knock on the wood). Zeovit relies a lot on aminos. "Proper data" would obviously be great to look at but one thing I have realized is you won't be able to get any data regarding chemical stuffs from unbiased source in this hobby; whoever has money/equipment to undergo such tests are already related to some names.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Jakegr

Whenever someone makes a claim like that, I have to say "show me the data"!

Personally, I don't take Reef Builders too seriously when they review products. I read their site all the time as they are great at showing off the latest and greatest aquarium gear, but since they accept advertising dollars from all over I do not think they can be considered an unbiased source of information. They did spark an interest in me about AcroPower though, so they are good at what they do!

Wellppp... Until some aspiring PhD graduate or big science foundation takes this most magnanimously prestigious and practical endeavor to task, all you'll have from the community and industry at large are anecdotal statements. I suppose you'll just have to take their word for it OR not use the products

[Jakegr]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Wellppp... Until some aspiring PhD graduate or big science foundation takes this most magnanimously prestigious and practical endeavor to task, all you'll have from the community and industry at large are anecdotal statements. I suppose you'll just have to take their word for it OR not use the products

So it is up for debate then

I don't think we need a Ph.D. grad or science foundation to take care of this, as there has already been some science done on the topic. I was wondering if you knew of any.

A short google search yielded this:

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/211/6/860.full

Which showed Stylophora can at least uptake amino acids, but also says most N in the coral comes from inorganic sources.

Do amino acids result in improved growth and coloration? If so, which specific amino acids do? Are they deficient in all aquariums, or only some? There are lots of questions here. I don't see why we need to shrug them off and simply rely on anecdotal reports when there is already research out there.

I know it isn't always practical to do research on these topics, I was just wondering if you had seen any existing data.

Plus, I do think anecdotal reports have wasted a lot of money in this hobby!

[Jakegr]

Just read this article by Dr. Tim Wijgerde on amino acid supplementation. He has written for the Advanced Aquarist blog in the past, and I have found his articles to be very well researched. He is a published specialist in coral nutrition.

http://www.coralscience.org/main/art...-6/amino-acids

There is some science the supports the use of amino acids (he cites the article I posted above).

This means that corals really have adapted to the oligotrophic waters of the ocean, as the concentration of total amino acids fluctuates between 200 to 500 nmol/l. This is only 0.03 to 0.07 mg/l or ppm! It seems corals only need small concentrations of amino acids for normal growth. In fact; it seems that SPS corals like S. pistillata only need light and dissolved nutrients (next to nitrogen, their require phosphate and other elements as well) from the water column to survive. This is in contrast to corals which really need plankton to survive, like azooxanthellate gorgonians and Dendronephthya's. Now the big question is: does dosing extra amino acids in the aquarium help your corals grow? The answer is yes. Figure 3 shows that we can manipulate the amount of amino acids corals take up, by increasing their ambient concentration. It is known that amino acids are important for building the organic matrix; an important aspect of coral calcification2. Next to this, amino acids are also used to build proteins, which have important functions in living cells.

Now that we know that coral aquaculture, and certain aquaria at home, could benefit from amino acid dosages, the next question is: how much do I need to add? This is difficult to answer. This depends on the aquarium volume, and moreover, on the nature and amount of biomass. Simply put; the amount, sizes and species of corals in the aquarium. On the coral reefs, the total DFAA fluctuates around 30 to 70 ppb, which really is quite low. The easiest way to determine the specific dosage for any tank would be to determine its total consumption per day (or week), or by measuring the total concentration of DFAA's at any given time. The equipment to do so is not really available to the average aquarist, yet. Finding out the stock concentration for the product you are using, and starting with the recommended dosage is good way to start. In the end, many aquarists develop 'salt water fingers', and learn how their aquarium responds to changes.

Anyways, I find articles like this one far more useful than the Reef Builders article. The Coral Science article drew on scientific literature to formulate conclusions. Reef Builders just took anecdotal reports, which are of questionable integrity due to potential advertising bias.

[ashr]

This is great info. Thanks for finding it for us.

It's pretty interesting over all... so much to learn haha