Newbie advise needed... Diary of a new tank junkie

[SmallFry]

Originally Posted by ensquire

What I'm really learning here is that making decisions on the fly isn't all that wise, going slow and planning things before hand is the way to go. but i guess that will be the next tank. LOL

Very true. With my first tank there were a number of things that I did that didn't make sense. In the light of what I learned I planned my upgrade tank way in advance (build is at 18 months and counting) but still a number of things got adjusted on the fly - never underestimate the "Ooh - shiny!" factor..

[ensquire]

I'm so new it all looks shiny LOL

I did learn today that I need a bigger drain pipe. Crappy little pump only pushes 320GPH and if its running wide open the drain is just adequite, on an 80 gallon tank thats not a big enough flow rate

[intarsiabox]

My 90g has only a single over flow in one corner and I used both holes for overflows, one herbie and one straight pipe for emergency overflows. It's not that I'm worried about clogs it's that this way I can place my return line into the tank at the opposite corner of the over flow so it directs the water and any debris into the over flow instead of away from it making it more efficient. No need to drill anything, it doesn't take up any more space and also less plumbing for my return pipe as the return pump is directly under the opposite side of the tank from the overflow.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

My 90g has only a single over flow in one corner and I used both holes for overflows, one herbie and one straight pipe for emergency overflows. It's not that I'm worried about clogs it's that this way I can place my return line into the tank at the opposite corner of the over flow so it directs the water and any debris into the over flow instead of away from it making it more efficient. No need to drill anything, it doesn't take up any more space and also less plumbing for my return pipe as the return pump is directly under the opposite side of the tank from the overflow.

i bet its super quiet too

[ensquire]

Thanks and now the next series of questions. LOL
Drain is a 1" bulkhead with a 3/4" straight pipe and the drain has 3/4" pipe with 2 elbows draining into sump. Return is a 320 GPH pump hooked to a short piece of hose into a 1/2" run about 3' long with 2 elbows attached to a 1/2" bulkhead with a 1/2" pipe into a Locline nozzle. I don't like the open drain, and have experimented with several types of drains, but whenever I change from the straight open end I have to throttle back my pump. I would like and need more than 320 GPH flow, which brings me to
My questions about my options.
Is there any effect on the drainage if I make the pipes bigger before and after the bulkhead? It is still a 1" opening.
I see several options but would like to get some opinions and feedback on them.
My first thought was to order some glass bits and bore out the openings inside the overflow box but my concerns are about how close the boles will be and the space underneath would be tight but might be an option.
Option 2) Use both lines in overflow box az drains (Herbie, or other).Increase pipe to 1 1 1/2 before bulkhead and 1" after. Run an exterior line up the back thAt would tee off into 2 returns drilled thru back of the tank and use nozzles to have some flow behind the reef. in the tank. If this is best option, should the return be a single line or double and should it be 1/2, 3/4, or 1" based on the size of the drain?
Option 2) use 1' bulkhead in overflow box as 1' return line and use second pipe as emergency overflow. Then build either an interior or an exterior overflow box on the back of the tank?

I would like to increase my pump to a Quiet One pushing 800 GPH if I can work out this plumbing problem, and I am really stuck here. My tank has been running for a month now with only the liverock in it and I am dying to start stocking it, but I feel that this will be a mistake until I address this plumbing/flow situation.

Thanks.

Mike


Or option 3) I am overreacting and I should be happy with present situation?

[SmallFry]

Originally Posted by ensquire

Thanks and now the next series of questions. LOL
Drain is a 1" bulkhead with a 3/4" straight pipe and the drain has 3/4" pipe with 2 elbows draining into sump. Return is a 320 GPH pump hooked to a short piece of hose into a 1/2" run about 3' long with 2 elbows attached to a 1/2" bulkhead with a 1/2" pipe into a Locline nozzle. I don't like the open drain, and have experimented with several types of drains, but whenever I change from the straight open end I have to throttle back my pump. I would like and need more than 320 GPH flow, which brings me to
My questions about my options.
Is there any effect on the drainage if I make the pipes bigger before and after the bulkhead? It is still a 1" opening.
I see several options but would like to get some opinions and feedback on them.
My first thought was to order some glass bits and bore out the openings inside the overflow box but my concerns are about how close the boles will be and the space underneath would be tight but might be an option.
Option 2) Use both lines in overflow box az drains (Herbie, or other).Increase pipe to 1 1 1/2 before bulkhead and 1" after. Run an exterior line up the back thAt would tee off into 2 returns drilled thru back of the tank and use nozzles to have some flow behind the reef. in the tank. If this is best option, should the return be a single line or double and should it be 1/2, 3/4, or 1" based on the size of the drain?
Option 2) use 1' bulkhead in overflow box as 1' return line and use second pipe as emergency overflow. Then build either an interior or an exterior overflow box on the back of the tank?

I would like to increase my pump to a Quiet One pushing 800 GPH if I can work out this plumbing problem, and I am really stuck here. My tank has been running for a month now with only the liverock in it and I am dying to start stocking it, but I feel that this will be a mistake until I address this plumbing/flow situation.

Thanks.

Mike


Or option 3) I am overreacting and I should be happy with present situation?

I've recently finished plumbing my 75 gallon, and some of my experience form doing this might be applicable given some of your bulkhead sizing and the newer pump you're talking about. I'll be honest though and say I'm no expert as this is my first system with a sump..

My system is running a quiet one 4000, that given the head height I reckon is probably (according to the graph on the box) pushing 600 - 800 gph. I'm running on 1" bulkheads with 1" drains also. The drain system I chose is a three drain herbie (also sometimes referred to as a bean animal), I realize that you only have two holes, but the third drain is just an extra paranoia measure which I could easily accommodate by just adding an extra hole in my overflow box, so I did it while I had the drill out.. The returns are 1" single up to about the level of the bottom of the tank where it splits and goes up the back of the tank and over the edge, also in 1". I then have some 1" pvc end caps that I've drilled 5/8" holes in to get a bit of pressure behind it (these aren't glued so I cab remove/redrill/replace as whim dictates..

There are some pictures of my set up in the build threads on my sig. They probably explain it far better than I have! The early for the 75 are in the latter parts of the 27 log - and why not, because that makes complete sense!

I found that with the return pump at full belt I still have to close my ball valve somewhat in order to make any flow through the second drain and keep the main one air free, so one 1" with 1" plumbing downstream drain can handle in excess of the required flow from my pump. You mentioned that there were two holes in the overflow box, if one is 1" then you're home free, because your main 1" drain can handle the flow plus some, then your second can also handle it if the main one blocks completely, and a herbie is totally doable.. if the second hole is the 1/2" return you mentioned, then things become more complicated, or you may have to accept that you can't handle the flow if your main drain blocks completely (how likely a complete blockage is I don't know) surely though, it's safer than a single drain..

If you build an overflow box I'd vote for external - I really like mine a lot because it doesn't intrude on the tank at all. I'm so glad I didn't go internal as I'd originally planned. Now if I can only stop the cats trying to drink out of it..

Either way, I'd be very tempted to get rid of that 3/4" section in your drain, no doubt that would increase your drain flow a lot, and save you throttling back the pump...

[ensquire]

Thanks for the insight smallfry, I like the bean animal setup and was in the mix as well.
Did you DIY the whole setup? If I go this way I would probably need a box built. Who does this ?

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by ensquire

Thanks and now the next series of questions. LOL
Drain is a 1" bulkhead with a 3/4" straight pipe and the drain has 3/4" pipe with 2 elbows draining into sump. Return is a 320 GPH pump hooked to a short piece of hose into a 1/2" run about 3' long with 2 elbows attached to a 1/2" bulkhead with a 1/2" pipe into a Locline nozzle. I don't like the open drain, and have experimented with several types of drains, but whenever I change from the straight open end I have to throttle back my pump. I would like and need more than 320 GPH flow, which brings me to
My questions about my options.
Is there any effect on the drainage if I make the pipes bigger before and after the bulkhead? It is still a 1" opening.
I see several options but would like to get some opinions and feedback on them.
My first thought was to order some glass bits and bore out the openings inside the overflow box but my concerns are about how close the boles will be and the space underneath would be tight but might be an option.
Option 2) Use both lines in overflow box az drains (Herbie, or other).Increase pipe to 1 1 1/2 before bulkhead and 1" after. Run an exterior line up the back thAt would tee off into 2 returns drilled thru back of the tank and use nozzles to have some flow behind the reef. in the tank. If this is best option, should the return be a single line or double and should it be 1/2, 3/4, or 1" based on the size of the drain?
Option 2) use 1' bulkhead in overflow box as 1' return line and use second pipe as emergency overflow. Then build either an interior or an exterior overflow box on the back of the tank?

I would like to increase my pump to a Quiet One pushing 800 GPH if I can work out this plumbing problem, and I am really stuck here. My tank has been running for a month now with only the liverock in it and I am dying to start stocking it, but I feel that this will be a mistake until I address this plumbing/flow situation.

Thanks.

Mike


Or option 3) I am overreacting and I should be happy with present situation?

hey mike so with a return pump only rated at 320gph and having a tank of 80g leaves you 4x turnover when you would usually want minimum 5x or as much as can be delivered. so id say a upgrade in pumps is a good start and then if it were my tank i would use the two holes i have and run my lines directly over the back as in your idea.

i dont think using bigger pipes going to a smaller bulkhead hole is gonna increase gph but im not sure and it probably could im sure theres some logic behind it but in the end a hole will only fit so much water.i guess it would depend on the overflow method you choose.

it sounds like your not afraid to drill holes and are prepared to do so , so why not make them bigger or add one?? if you do just make sure to know the bulheads you are going to use or at least how much space to leave in between each hole


fwiw i hate 3/4" plumbing and even more so 1/2" i think 1" is great for your tank and imo i like to have my drain hole size bigger than my return hole size cheers sounds like your on the right track

[SmallFry]

Originally Posted by ensquire

Thanks for the insight smallfry, I like the bean animal setup and was in the mix as well.
Did you DIY the whole setup? If I go this way I would probably need a box built. Who does this ?

Pretty much the whole thing is diy, apart from the tanks, but I did replace the back panel in the main tank and then cut the slots for the overflow and resealed the sump. The overflow box wasn't hard to build, just remember to use thicker glass on the bottom like I didn't the first time!

Probably your glass shop would be able to build it, but don't know whether they'd have aquarium safe silicone. Really isn't that hard to do yourself if the glass is cut for you. Just remember, when working with silicone, masking tape is your friend....

The plumbing was pretty easy, just have to make sure you get the stuff dry assembled first to make sure it all fits at the right lengths etc. I also found that it's worth marking the pipes and fittings while dry assembled because you want to get things on the right way around and also the fittings slide in easier/further once you've got the adhesive on so you could accidentally end up with the pipe shorter than you planned, and with that glue you don't have much thinking time!

[ensquire]

Okay then, Now for a out of left field question.
Has anyone ever sealed off 2 bottom holes and not had problems??
What Im thinking is that I would like to eliminate the corner overflow box entirely and use a piece of glass and lotsa silicone to seal off the holes in the bottom. What are the chances of success????? I would then demolish the corner box and go with a rear exterior overflow and drill 2 return lines at both ends of the rear glass panel. Don't wanna do the over the top return.

Opinions???????????