Steve Tyree's chat the other night

[stephane]

sorry Daren I just see that you have give the link of the entire tread I quote :D

Here is the spectral analisis of the radium 20k 150 watt direct from my radium catalog in fact this bulb is a 160 watt and not a 150 and the 400watt is a 360w


[ 07 June 2002, 17:47: Message edited by: stephane ]

[ron101]

Hmmm... Now Im wondering if those 'untrue' PC actinics that are more blue than violet would be of use for us 10K Ushio/AB users. Any thoughts?

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by DJ88:
The thing is if you were to read Sanjay's article you will notice that the 150W HQI's were mearured with a reflector where all the others weren't. Most people seem to skip by this point.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are right, but the people that don't miss it tend to blow it out of proportion also, if you add in the amount a really nice reflector would increase the 400 watt Iwasaki the test shows that it will beat the 150 watt AB DE bulb, but the Ab bulb will still lay waist to any 250 watt bulb out there :D but, this is not the important thing. the fact is that a 150 watt AB DE bulbs seams to provide Iwasaki power with a 10000K color and that its effectiveness is some where between a 250 and a 400.

Delphinus stated that PAR isn't everything, well he is right but what else exactly is needed is all speculation, some say it is intensity where others say high intensity over a certain level is a waist of energy as the corals can only use so much. Others say UV (in a controlled amount) is what gives the corals there colors... again no proof. if you look at the so called blue/violet bulbs sure you are getting the intensity of a MH bulb and at 400 watts that is a lot of punch, but you are also getting a increase in UV also, So if you take a 400 watt radium for example, is it the blue color, the violet color, the pure intensity or the increase in UV that is coloring up the corals. I don't know the answer to this and as far as I know unless the big guys are keeping secrets neither do they

Steve

[BCReefer]

Thanks guys, especially you Darren. I really am starting to get the hang of the lighting and other aspects of marine aquariums. I am also tackling the DT's issue to the tanks.

I must admit I am coming up to my 1 year aniversary for my marine tank and as the old cig commercial saying goes "You've come along way baby!"

Can't wait until the 22nd.

Patrick

[stephane]

Originally posted by StirCrazy:
but the Ab bulb will still lay waist to any 250 watt bulb out there :D but, this is not the important thing. the fact is that a 150 watt AB DE bulbs seams to provide Iwasaki power with a 10000K color and that its effectiveness is some where between a 250 and a 400.

[/QB]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NO! NO! NO! Stir dont forget AGAIN that the mini DE reflector concentrate the light in a small beam dont compare a 250 iwasaki whit a 150 DE the 250 will sipmly blow away any 150 in SIMILAR reflector put the 150 DE in a spider and then you could compare other than that any comparison is useless and false

This is a tread from the mouth of of sanjay imself maybe now it will make the ting clear

Originally stated by Sanjay Joshi:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

Just thought I should respond this discussion, especially relating to the 250W and 150W DE 10KK lamps.

The 250W lamp was tested without any reflector, whereas the 150W was tested in the PFO mini hood. When testing these lamps without a reflector, the lamp is basically sticking out with absolutely nothing on top so no light emited from the top is reflected in the downward direction and almost none of that gets measured - since the test is performed an a room with walls painted dull black and really high celing. Since all the tests were performed in a similar manner, this allows direct comparison of the lamps against each other.

However, when a reflector (or in the case of the 150W the mini hood) is thrown in to the mix, the data cannot be easily extrapolated for comparison. To use 50-75% increase due to reflector is most likely not correct, since in the case of the mini hood most of the light was being reflected in a downward direction and hence being measured, and throwing off the comparison based on extrapolation of the data from the 250 tested in a very different manner.

[ 07 June 2002, 21:23: Message edited by: stephane ]

[StirCrazy]

Steph, I am not talking about that test anymore.. the 150 has been tested against a 250 in identical fixtures..

Besides, if you re-read that statment you quoted by him in its entirity, you will find that he was talking about the comparasons between the 150 watt HQI agains the 250watt HQI, people were saying that the 150 was just as good as the 250 but they didn't realize that the new test on the 250 was done with a bare bulb.

it doesent matter though because the AB 150 is way to expensive for my blood (unless you have a good deal in the works :D ) but I think the 250 AB DE would be a better bulb.

I did recive a e-mail back from AB today and they only listed one place in Canada as a outlet for there bulbs.. to bad usaly that means they will be very expensive as there is not compatition.

Steve

[stephane]

Originally posted by StirCrazy:
Besides, if you re-read that statment you quoted by him in its entirity, you will find that he was talking about the comparasons between the 150 watt HQI agains the 250watt HQI, people were saying that the 150 was just as good as the 250 but they didn't realize that the new test on the 250 was done with a bare bulb.

Steve

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Better now!
So you agree that the AB250 DE as more par than the AB150 DE Right ?

OK Im about to make you self change you mind on that 150 (I hope) If you look at 2002 the anual marine and fish 2002 SANJAY have quote the Iwasaki 250 watt 130 PAR
and the AB250 DE 110 PAR

and those measure are made in equal condition none have reflector

So a 150 DE is very far from bite a 250 iwasaki

I hope this will close the loop on the 150 DE mith

No flame here stir I only do this to stop people
trowing there money out for a miracle new gadjet ;) HQI DE very far from being that miracle bulb some clame. From all the 10k I
tink the only one who is an improve over an
iwasaki for the color are the AB BUT the price are simply ridiculous IMO

dont forget that the Iwasaki are in fact 7200k
+ both need actinic supplement and most 10k look prety similar when suplement whith actinic + those DE need UV shield and expensive projector
so Iwasaki 150 and 250 are still IMO two of the best bulb on the market for your $ The realy improvement look will not come from a 10k but from a 20K radium all people who have switch to them only dream about them and all said they never go back + now that It's possible to have those 20k and ballast for the price of an iwasaki
and skip the VHO + have the best color ever and realy good grow what do you want to ask more?

[StirCrazy]

No prob Steph, I have always said that the Iwasaki is a bright bulb but you always want to compare apples with oranges [img]smile.gif[/img] if you want to compare a 10K bulb... compare it against another 10K bulb. Or got out and get a 6500K DE and use that. The iwasaki bulb is not a satandard bulb in the sence that it puts out way more light than even bulbs of the same color temp this makes it not a good bulb to base a comparason on as it is a exception not the standard. If you look at other 250 watt MH bulbs they are all less that 1/2 the out put of the Iwasaki it is the same as trying to compare a 6500K PC against a 10000K PC, the 6500K will have more PAR but the 10000K looks better.

Now if we go with the numbers Sanjay got from his test is was 140PPFD/PAR for the 250 iwasaki and 128.8 PPFD/PAR for a Ushio 10000K HQI NOT a AB DE as you stated. in fact the 110 you reported for the AB was for a normal AB 10000K MH bulb not a DE HQI.

The AB DE bulbs are to HQI, like the Iwasaki bulbs are to normal MH bulbs.. I don't know if that made any sence but after talking with AB and my family in Germany that use the AB (and for some time now) that is the impression I am left with. Still at 180.00 cdn for a 150 watt bulb and god knows how much for a 250 watt bulb they are way out of my reach so I think I will settle for a 250 watt Ushio 10000K HQI sence they have almost as much out put as a Iwasaki with out the yellow IMO.

here is the link for the down and dirty data :D
you will find that there were only 2 HQI bulbs tested the first was the AB 150 DE HQI (tested with reflector and glass) the second was a Ushio 10000K HQI DE tested bare.

TEST RESULTS IN A NICE TABLE

when Darren posted his pic's of his tank with the iwasaki and the 10000K bulb on it I liked the 10000K bulb better, from the pictures there wasn't much difference in brightness but if you look closly his corals are floressing a little harder under the 10000K.

The one thing I like about the idea of using a DE bulbs is that by varing the thickness of the glass under it you can controle how much UV is entering your tank, this way if UV is a large contrubiting factor to the color of corals you will be able to find that perfect balance by using different thickness glass.


Steve

[ 08 June 2002, 00:56: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[canadawest]

Originally posted by BCReefer:

I must admit I am coming up to my 1 year aniversary for my marine tank and as the old cig commercial saying goes "You've come along way baby!"

Can't wait until the 22nd.

Patrick

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Awwwww.... And I remember when you were just a newborn! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Doug]

As Stephane and I have already talked about on RC, I have always had a preference for the 12K flanked by a pair of 10K bulbs.

I have run almost every combination of lighting to see the corals response & people looking at the tanks.

The 400 watt 12 over the center, with a 175 watt 10K German on each side, seems to give the best look and still a nice growth rate.

As I said on the 20K thread, I am going to try them also. Alone on the 170 and as the center bulb on the 180, {after the 12K bulbs are finished though}.

For sure, as we have argued in the past, bulb replacement costs are a big issue, esp. with us here in Canada. Thats why Iwasaki makes so much sense for us. But now with costs of higher "K" bulbs coming down, why not use them.

I purchsed several 175 watt 10K bulbs from Jayson for a hundred bucks each. How the heck can ya beat that. :D I just purchased a 400 watt 20K for $160, still pretty good and going to get some more even cheaper yet. ;)

I say whoo-tee-doo, :D , its about time we here in Canada, recieved a break on our marine supplies. Gettin tired of paying through the nose for everything.