Moorish Idol feed. Sponge??

[RD]

From Bob Fenner's site, just a small sample of what Bob & his mods have to say with regards to feeding Moorish Idol in captivity.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/idolfaqs.htm

<Yes... to sing its praises once again, Spectrum pelleted foods really seem to be a/the "trick" here... Accepted readily and completely nutritious. BobF>

<<EXCELLENT! Of the few successes I have heard about concerning these fish, New Life Spectrum foods have played a key role>>

<<Good signs…but likely not good enough. Just “eating” is not enough with this fish as most will still decline. I think there is something about their diet/dietary requirements that we don’t yet understand…although, there has been anecdotal proof that specimens that will feed on New Life Spectrum pellets may be fulfilling that unknown requirement>>

My LFS is also trying to feed him New Life Spectrum Pellets at my request, and he is starting to show interest.
<<This will probably be key to successfully keeping this fish…along with housing it in a proper environment>>

<<It is not… Getting these fish to eat is not atypical…getting them to thrive/survive the long-term, is. If you don’t have it now, I very much suggest you obtain the Spectrum pelleted food (small [1mm] pellets)>>

I have had two Moorish Idols for a little over a year. They have both grown in size and eat a wide variety of food mainly Spectrum Thera A pellets.
<Ah, yes... have seen Pablo Tepoot's Zanclus... almost bulging at the seams on this food>

<<It’s not so much a matter of getting them to eat...but more a problem of providing the “necessary” nutrition. Many a Moorish Idol has seemed to be feeding well only to die from apparent malnutrition, or secondary disease/infection brought on by malnutrition. But on the bright side, there appears to be anecdotal proof that the pelleted foods from New Life Spectrum can/do provide the necessary nutritional requirements for these (and many/most other) fishes. If you choose to persist in your pursuit of these fishes I highly recommend you give the Spectrum foods a try>>


And medhatreefguy, here's a little reality check for you. I've been a member here for 5 years, and while I have responded to a few discussions involving diet, or fish nutrition in general, I haven't exactly been running around *plugging* products, nor was I shooting down (as you put it) other products. The fact of the matter is I don't know of any other diet that has kept MI's alive & thriving long term in captivity outside of NLS. If you or anyone else does, then by all means add your 2 cents worth, I'm all ears.

You may not consider my advice sound, or Bob Fenner's, or any of his mods.
That's fine by me, but so far I don't see anyone else offering Tony any input as to what to feed his fish to keep it healthy long term.

Bob not only agrees with me, he respects my experience & knowledge on this subject enough to have asked me in the past to join his team of advisors, to which I declined as in that case I did feel that it would be considered by some to be a conflict of interest. Kind of a dumb move for someone who's only interest is to plug his product, don't you think?

This happens to be a subject that I'm very well versed in, and I am as passionate about this hobby as you or anyone else on this forum. Over the years I've swapped spit with the best of them, including manufacturers, marine biologists, zoologists, DVM's, research scientists that specialize in this field, and with enough letters after their name to sink a ship. I'm 50+ yrs of age, and have been closely involved in the science of animal nutrition for over half of my life.



Perhaps in the future don't be so quick to judge every book by its cover, when you crack that book open you just might actually learn something.

[globaldesigns]

Wow, interesting thread!

Firstly, all stores, LFS or sellers other than the normal reefer hobbyist should fully reveal themselves. Hiding for the sake of not being in trouble with the forum mods for breaking rules or not paying the sponsor fee's. Well come on now, follow the rules, or go away. Anybody here that may fall into this category, smarten up!

I think we are off topic here. The thread poster wanted info on Moorish Idols and feeding. Who cares about Bob Fenner, yes I have heard of him, but come on, he isn't GOD!!!

Respect needs to go both ways here folks, treat how you want to be treated.

[RD]

Ironically years back I did have a business link in my sig line, just so I was on the up & up ...... and some people complained about that, so I removed it. Tony (Delphinus) told me at the time that he didn't have a problem with it, but to avoid any future angst among the masses I voluntarily removed it. I guess there's just no pleasing some people.

While Bob Fenner is indeed not god, he does have a lot of first hand knowledge as to what works best with MI kept in captivity.

Again, lots of comments in this discussion, but so far I haven't seen anyone providing Tony with an alternative method that has any type of long term track record behind it.


Either way, before this spirals out of control any further, or anyone else decides to give me a public dressing down for coming out of the closet to assist the OP, I think that I'll bid adieu.

I wish you the best with your new MI, and the opening of your new restaurant, Tony.

Cheers

[viperfish]

Originally Posted by RD

This happens to be a subject that I'm very well versed in, and I am as passionate about this hobby as you or anyone else on this forum. Over the years I've swapped spit with the best of them, including manufacturers, marine biologists, zoologists, DVM's, research scientists that specialize in this field, and with enough letters after their name to sink a ship. I'm 50+ yrs of age, and have been closely involved in the science of animal nutrition for over half of my life.

Perhaps in the future don't be so quick to judge every book by its cover, when you crack that book open you just might actually learn something.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not judging you, I don't know you or anything about you. All I did was state the obvious. I did not agree with your statement that you stay away from Canreef because of bullshit responses:

[/quote]Your previous (bullshit!) repsonse is a prime example of why I typically don't get involved in these types of discussions here[/quote]

When you described you experience and wealth of knowledge I had a look at your posts to hopefully find a sample of this and all I found was New Life Spectrum. Someone such as yourself could certainly contribute a great deal to this forum and especially considering you are in the field of sales it would do nothing but help your business. Everyone here helps everyone out, I have met quite a few of the members in person and they have to be the best bunch of people out there, if we all had your attitude none of this would exist. If you are as great as you claim and Bob Fenner really wants you, then you could certainly be a guru on this forum, why not share that with the people right out your back door for the sake of the hobby.

[albert_dao]

This is ridiculous. I don't get why RD has to defend himself every time he makes a post about NLS. The product has an immaculate track record and many who have had long term involvement in both the hobby and the industry, myself included, would be hard pressed to work with any other product.

Originally Posted by medhatreefguy

When you described you experience and wealth of knowledge I had a look at your posts to hopefully find a sample of this and all I found was New Life Spectrum. Someone such as yourself could certainly contribute a great deal to this forum and especially considering you are in the field of sales it would do nothing but help your business. Everyone here helps everyone out, I have met quite a few of the members in person and they have to be the best bunch of people out there, if we all had your attitude none of this would exist. If you are as great as you claim and Bob Fenner really wants you, then you could certainly be a guru on this forum, why not share that with the people right out your back door for the sake of the hobby.

This is circular. RD doesn't post because his posts and field of knowledge revolve around NLS and its nutritional components. Whenever NLS pops up, all the trolls come out from under their bridges to flame him. What motivation should he have to contribute to a board where the loudest members are also the ones least inclined to behave rationally towards the information he presents?

[albert_dao]

For the record, this is RD's original post to the OP.

Originally Posted by RD

Kieron Dodds, from Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine wrote an article on the Moorish Idol in 2008, titled; "Still Impossible After All These Years - Keeping Moorish Idol". He clearly admits that the main intent of his article was to discourage anyone from acquiring this species, as he feels this species has almost no chance in being kept alive in captivity beyond a very short duration.

At one point in the article he states "Pablo Tepoot is perhaps the single individual who has had the most success with this species" - unfortunately Pablo (the creator of New Life Spectrum) lost his last group of Moorish Idol to an electrical failure during a hurricane, at that point he had kept them thriving in captivity for 5+ years.
Something that most people would have considered impossible 15 or 20 yrs ago.

Can they be kept healthy & thriving long term, absolutely.
Are there any guarantees with this species, absolutely not.
Of course the same could be said about many things in this hobby, but that's a far cry from classifying Moorish Idol as being doomed to die in captivity.

Feeding foods such as mysis & nori will definitely not meet this species nutrient demands,
these types of foods have been tried many times over the years, and always end up a failure. I'm not posting this in defense of keeping Moorish Idol in captivity, but for those that try, take a hint from Pablo Tepoot as to what to feed, because getting this species healthy diet wise, is the single most important part of the equation.

So to answer the OP's question, diet wise, for long term success there is nothing required beyond feeding a high quality pellet that will meet & exceed all of your fishes nutrient requirements. Choose that pellet food wisely, and you will have already made it past your largest hurdle in keeping this species thriving in captivity.

Best of luck with your new MI.

[viperfish]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

This is ridiculous. I don't get why RD has to defend himself every time he makes a post about NLS. The product has an immaculate track record and many who have had long term involvement in both the hobby and the industry, myself included, would be hard pressed to work with any other product.



This is circular. RD doesn't post because his posts and field of knowledge revolve around NLS and its nutritional components. Whenever NLS pops up, all the trolls come out from under their bridges to flame him. What motivation should he have to contribute to a board where the loudest members are also the ones least inclined to behave rationally towards the information he presents?

Troll? Definitely not! I do everything I can to contribute to this hobby, my goal is not to roam the forum shooting people down. I come here mostly to learn and to chat with some really cool people. No harm is intended. I never said New Life Spectrum is bad, I use the stuff myself. I just mentioned there are COMPARABLE foods, PE Mysis, Ocean Nutrition, Reed Mariculture, just to name a few and the guy went off. I don't want to make any enemies here dao, life is too short for that. We just don't get too many people on here talking about how smart they are, so I checked his posts because what's the point of having this wealth of knowledge if you don't pass it along, and I'm always up for learning new things. I saw nothing that would convince me of his claims and that's it... end of story. I'm sorry man, all I took from his posts is that I should buy New Life Spectrum food. I didn't do anything but state the obvious, I didn't try to hijack the thread, or call anyone a Troll! No harm was intended so my sincerest apologies go out to anyone that may have taken offense.

[naesco]

RD
You made two mistakes in your posting which you cannot justify.
1. You pushed your own product without identifying to reefers that you are a salesman for the product. In the future identify yourself!

2. When you were challenged to identify yourself you did not and this is a very serious ommission on your part. Most reefers rely on the advice that they find on this board. This is one of the main reasons I and other reefers come here. If the advice the reefer is reading is unknowingly suspect because you have failed to disclose you have a conflict of interest you are not doing the reefer or your company any favour.
Next time you post please be forthright.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by naesco

RD
You made two mistakes in your posting which you cannot justify.
1. You pushed your own product without identifying to reefers that you are a salesman for the product. In the future identify yourself!

2. When you were challenged to identify yourself you did not and this is a very serious ommission on your part. Most reefers rely on the advice that they find on this board. This is one of the main reasons I and other reefers come here. If the advice the reefer is reading is unknowingly suspect because you have failed to disclose you have a conflict of interest you are not doing the reefer or your company any favour.
Next time you post please be forthright.

1. I don't see it that way. I see this:

Originally Posted by medhatreefguy

Bob Fenner highly recommends the New Life Spectrum Pellets for successfully feeding MI's. Apparently there isn't a particular ingredient identified that sets it apart from the other foods but I guess by trial and error this food seems to work ( I hope they didn't try too many brands before they hit the right one).

Followed by this:

Originally Posted by RD

There is much that sets it apart from other foods, but most of that falls under proprietary information.

Followed by the resulting bullshit.

Frankly, this, along with RD's original post to the OP addresses point #2.

For the record, I do not have anything to do with RD's business or NLS other than being a former seller and an enthusiastic user of the food.


Back to the point - I have PERSONALLY seen at least five Moorish Idols that have been kept longterm in captivity with NLS as the mainstay of their diet. The other contributing factor I saw in common with all these animals is that they were fed whenever their owners walked by the tank (3-10 times/day) and all tanks had MASSIVE flow, similar to what you would need for an Achilles Tang. Finally, all animals were solitary. They do not get along with each other very well in aquariums (I can see 2000k+ gallon tanks perhaps routing this rule).

[naesco]

Albert

Are you saying that you can keep a Moorish Idol alive long term if.

1. It is housed in a large tank sufficient to accommodate a tang or Moorish Idol. (6 foot minimum)

2. The Flow is MASSIVE.

3. The fish is fed up to 10 times a day with the NLS food.

4. The fish is the only fish in the tank.

Am I correct on this?

Thanks