Signs of cyanide caught fish

[24storm]

Can anyone tell me the signs to look for in cyanide caught fish or links to articles about it. All i can find are articles telling you not to buy cyanide caught live stock but how would one know.

Also how long does it take to show up are we talking days weeks months?

If the fish dies is there a way you can tell for sure it was cyanide poisoning?

If in anyone has any good links for anything to do with cyanide poisoning can you post them up please. I am trying to do some research on this so a person knows what to look for.

All my fish are healthy but i have lost things in the past and would like to know what to look for so myself and others can maybe avoid this trouble.

Thanks Keith

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

No real signs other than sudden death or rapid deterioration but even then, it could be something else. Only trace amounts of Cyanide stays in the fishes system (organs) and cannot be tested for until the fish is dead. You also will not be able to test at home. The fish needs to be blended up and you need very highly sensitive equipment to pick up the trace amounts of the poison left in the fish. Not something most people can test for and not something labs are going to bother testing for.

I have found that fish I suspect are dying of cyanide get "bruises" which I attribute to internal bleeding or hemoraging of internal organs such as liver. I don't know for sure though.

Usually the fish will be fine one day and almost dead by the next. They stop eating, loose weight rapidly and often start to swim erratically or can't swim at all. This is all just from experience though and may not be linked to cyanide. I am pretty sure it is but like I said, I could never be certain.

At MACNA last year a speaker (sorry don't remember who but he is well respected in the industry) claimed that 2/3 of the fish in the industry are from the Philippines and that approx. 3/4 of them are cyanide caught.

You are much safer going with Aussie fish and in the past Indo fish. But cyanide is starting to catch on in Indonesia now too.

Angels, Butterfly, Mandarins, any cryptic wrasses, some gobies, and most hard to catch fish are often cyanide caught.

If you have ever been on a dive among these species of fish, you will know that when you get too close, they dart into the coral heads and would be impossible to catch with a net. On the other hand, some triggers, puffers and even tangs I have found to be incredibly friendly and would not take too much effort to net catch...especially if you have some food for them

[24storm]

Thanks for the reply. Any idea on time frame for it to show up. If a fish is cyanide caught will it always happen or do some survive it.

Keith

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by 24storm

Thanks for the reply. Any idea on time frame for it to show up. If a fish is cyanide caught will it always happen or do some survive it.

Keith

Many do survive. I think it depends on how long the exposure is and how healthy the fish was at the time. Again nothing to back that up though, just my thoughts.

I have found anywhere from a few weeks to 6 months seems to be the time frame for them to go. Could be anytime really though. It one of those things where you just never know. The cyanide often damages the liver, so I think it maybe depends on how long the liver takes to deteriorate.

So many variables though, so I don't think your going to get a solid answer to that one.

[my2rotties]

There is a research document that I do not understand that well, but it says the gills brighten and darken in colour due to cyanide poisoning. The link is below... I don't know if this applies to aquarium fish since these fish were exposed in a lab, but I do believe it also speaks of fish that died in the rivers. The tests were also done on salt water fish as well...

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...q4HXoF-8932drg

[24storm]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Many do survive. I think it depends on how long the exposure is and how healthy the fish was at the time. Again nothing to back that up though, just my thoughts.

I have found anywhere from a few weeks to 6 months seems to be the time frame for them to go. Could be anytime really though. It one of those things where you just never know. The cyanide often damages the liver, so I think it maybe depends on how long the liver takes to deteriorate.

So many variables though, so I don't think your going to get a solid answer to that one.

Is there any way a person can medicate the fish when they bring it home sort of as a perventative thing?

I believe that there are more fish deaths caused from cyanide then we know of because everyone figures the death is because of something else.

Keith

[my2rotties]

Another link on treating cyanide poisoning with Methylene blue. Don't know if it will work in the long run or if treating new fish with it befre putting in display works or not... any insight on this?

http://www.novalek.com/kordon/methylene_blue/index.htm

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Another link on treating cyanide poisoning with Methylene blue. Don't know if it will work in the long run or if treating new fish with it befre putting in display works or not... any insight on this?

http://www.novalek.com/kordon/methylene_blue/index.htm

May help but I doubt its going to do much long term. Most of the damage done is permanent. The survival really depends on the extent of the damage to internal organs and gills. Methylene blue will most likely just help a weak fish fight off pathogens and bacterial disease which it may not have been able to fight off on its own. So yes its doing good but not necessarily going to help a fish live a nice long life.

Think of it like humans getting a common cold. Antibiotic resistance is the result of the overuse of antibiotics, mostly for respiratory tract infections. Doctors have been prescribing antibiotics for years to people with viral infections--essentially just kind of treating "everything" when someone claims to be sick. The problem is antibiotics do not work against viral infections like the flu. So now after years of being pumped with antibiotics, bacteria have become quite resistant to those antibiotics.

IMO its the same problem with treating fish with such wide range meds unless there is a specific reason such as an open wound or clear problem. A healthy fish should fight off disease on its own and start to gain a resistance. Many people see this happen with ich. I have yet to loose a fish to ich (and its in my tank) after they have fought off an initial infection--in fact I rarely see ich anymore except on new arrivals to the tank.

Kind of off topic now but treating for cyanide is not possible really, IMO. I think whats happening is that you end up treating for secondary infections and pathogens which eventually will overcome a fish with a low immune system or internal damage from cyanide.

[my2rotties]

It was mentioned to me that Cyanide poisoning could look much like Pseudomonas. I did a search on Pseudomonas and found one thread where it is mentioned. I don't know what these really are but have not seen a cyanide killed fish to see if it looks the same. If it was the case of disease would the other fish in the system not get the same thing essentially though. It would not be a mysterious death, but a disease outbreak right?

Since I could not find anything about the disease could it actually be the causes f mysterious deaths since it is not well known?

[fdiddy]

You mention that overtreating ailments results in "superbugs", but my aquarium fish aren't mating, and wouldn't the disease also be quarantined to my tank? I would think that for this reason I have no problem treating "lesser" diseases because a superbug in my system is unlikely for the lifespan of the tank (??). At any rate, I think the recovery of fish is likely dependent on water quality and the amount of aggression they see while recovering. If you think that the damage is permanent, then a fish will last longer in better water quality and food because their filtering organs are the ones affected (Or this is what I gather) so death is due to a build up of toxins, hence why better food and water quality could be the determining factor in how long these fish last.