marine salts

[Quinn]

the one thing that i noticed is that shimek was wondering if bad salt is what is causing the premature death of fish that are supposed to live for decades. do you guys think he has any argument there? i suppose we could assume the fish die prematurely because of disease or tank crashes, generally lack of attention on the part of the hobbyist?

[BCOrchidGuy]

It is a really tough call, fish can die because of old age, disease, sensitivity to dissolved chemicals we never test for etc... I think the thing to look for again is simply consistancy. If you keep a log of water changes, tests, fish added, fish deaths you may see a long term pattern. Radio shack sells a Intel Microscope, if someone is really concerned with premature death of fish I would encourage them to do a disection, set up slides and look for a cause of death. Do a google search on marine fish diseases and you will have lots of material to compare your slides too.

Myself, if a fish dies in my tank I have to assume I didn't meet its needs, or it died of old age.... If all my fish start to die, I assume there is a disease of some sort.

[ron101]

With all the recent concerns raised about impurities in synthetic marine mixes has anyone tried using the real thing? After all we do live on the coast. Obviously there are pollution concerns but doesn't the Vancouver Aquarium get its water from the straight?

[christyf5]

Hey BCOrchidGuy,

Have you seen that Intel Microscope at Radioshack lately??? I thought they had discontinued it??

Christy

[BCOrchidGuy]

No I haven't seen it lately, I know someone who has one... Guess I just assumed they were still available.

[fredfish]

Some things to think about:

1. The s-15 tests were done by an independant lab
2. The interpretation and the "rating" scale were done by Aquacraft
3. There was one other salt that compared favorably to the Aquacraft salt but was critisized for inconsistant manufacture (aquacraft interpretation.

I have no boubt that people can and have been very successful with the many and various salts out there.

There should also be no doubt that a captive environment is no where near as good as the real thing, and that all our tanks are sub-optimal to some degree for all the organisms we see.

The testing Dr. Ron has done of late suggest that one of the reasons our tanks are sub-optimal is high concentrations of heavy metals.

look at the body of evidence:

1. numerous scientific studies (peer reviewed and all) have shown that heavy metals in concentrations much lower than in our aquaria are toxic to a number of organisms

2. All the tanks waters Dr. Ron tested were extremely high in heavy metals.

3. Urchin larvey reacted poorly to salts high in heavy metals and well to those low in heavy metals.

4. The actual test results from the s-15 report corroberate the values Dr. Ron published in his latest test ( nothing to do with the aquacraft interpretation).

While there is no smoking gun (anyone got $25,000 laying around to produce one?), the evidence continues to build that heavy metals are the culpret (or at liest one).

Should everyone switch salts? Not likely.

Are the two salts Dr. Ron had success with in the urchin tests an improvement over the other salts? Probably.

If I were involved in breeding fish or trying to keep fish or critters that were known to be sensitive to water quality would I switch. Yes.

I may even switch salts to see if it helps out with critter diversity in my tank. After all, the two salts were better for urchin larvae and any critter that reproduces in my tank will go through a larval stage.

Fred.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Good points Fred, it is a shame so many people see the S-15 report and take it as a salt bible, frankly I see it as propaganda. I have had good luck with IO and Kent, I use the Kent because I like the extra calcium/strontium/magnesium. I had horrible luck with Bio Sea and Marine Environment, but thats just me being picky. Now I've been through 3 bags and a bucket of Kent salt, I can add 4 cups to my 10 gallon tank and I get a consistant pH, Alk, and Ca level, thats pretty much all I want in a salt, consistancy and adequate levels of buffer and calcium.

As far as the heavy metals goes, I wonder if using a water conditioner in your tank that binds heavy metals so they can be removed with carbon works to lower the heavy metals. I am not sure if they actually remove them or just bind them so test kits can't read them.

[Samw]

Originally Posted by BCOrchidGuy

Good points Fred, it is a shame so many people see the S-15 report and take it as a salt bible, frankly I see it as propaganda.

I wouldn't say many people are taking the S-15 as a salt bible. From what I've read lately, most do agree with you and have criticized the report.

But on another note, let's look at Dr. Ron's study. Is there any reason to believe that his results are flawed? If we performed the same test, is there any reason to believe that our results would be different than his? The survivability of urchin larvae is probably not important to any of us but if some salts are giving better survivability to sensititive animals and are also used by some aquaculture facilities, why not consider it? I am going to stay away from Aquacraft for now but I'll give Crystal Sea some consideration.

[steve-s]

Originally Posted by BCOrchidGuy

truncated quote: As far as the heavy metals goes, I wonder if using a water conditioner in your tank that binds heavy metals so they can be removed with carbon works to lower the heavy metals. I am not sure if they actually remove them or just bind them so test kits can't read them.

Interesting discussion. I think much along the same lines. I use prime whenever adding water to the tank and also use chemi-pure on a regular basis. I think the use of detoxifiers like prime do indeed help bind the metals and allow the carbon/resin products to catch them somewhat efficiently, albeit they are still effectively in the system until that media is replaced with fresh. That along with agressive protein skimming works quite well.

Although I have never used one myself I believe the best artificial product is a poly filter. The best natural way of helping with these elements is through the harvesting of caulerpa, which is best achieved through a slow flow refugium...

Cheers
Steve

[BCOrchidGuy]

I am at my LFS daily, and I hear people talk about it all the time (S-15 report), on another board I used to frequent but left because of the endless name calling and fighting, a number of people would find the report and think, OH MY GOODNESS I use IO I have to change salts, so they go to one of the Aquacraft salts and suffer massive losses of life etc...
Try Crystal Sea, I see no reason not to try other salts just use common sense (and avoid aqua craft) but remember there are lots of people who swear by Bio Sea and Marine Environment. Myself I'm sticking with what works for me... if I had a F/O tank I would use the IO, no need for the extra goodies in the Kent, mind you right now the Kent is the cheapest salt to buy, even cheaper than IO.