Rid-Volt Grounding Pole

Tigger · #1 01-26-2002, 12:02 AM

Is it worthwhile to get a Rid-Volt Grounding Pole?
What does it do and how does it work?
Should I get one from J&L?

terryp01 · #2 01-26-2002, 12:23 AM

Very worthwile if you are using pumps or electricty around your tank. [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

In the event any of your electrical components ever short out, this will prevent it from killing everything in your tank. I may also save you from electrical shock as well.

Every tank I have has at least one of these items. You can usually get them for about 12.00 USD and considering what they may save it is money well spent.

Duss

titus · #3 02-02-2002, 01:03 PM

Hello,

Okay I'm going to pitch in my long uncasted doubt on this equipment here.

Imagine 1
A squirrel is running on a power line fine and dandy [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Imagine 2
A squirrel has its hands touching the top wire (live) and its feet touching the middle wire (neutral) [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
Get where I'm getting at?

If any equipment in the tank fails and expose the live components to the tank water, then the tank water would become live and float at whatever voltage=120*sin(wt+theta) is, as long as the tank water isn't grounded anywhere else.

If buddy comes along and place a ground probe in, then the circuit is completed and the GFCI (if there's one) and the circuit breaker will trip. However, at the instant just right before the circuit is tripped, there's a large amount of current flowing through that saltwater body and anything in its path.

This is what I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. Darren and Victor. Help.

StirCrazy · #4 02-02-2002, 01:26 PM

after seeing all the problems laitly with people getting zaped (and they are using ground probes) I am not sure if they are a good thing. yes they will remove stray voltage but as Titus pointed out they will also compleat a circuit and htip the GFI if you have one. if you don't have one then you could be in trouble (or at least you wouldent need a heater anymore [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] )also there is the chance that another voltage leak in your house could be introduces into your tank throught a ground probe but this is probably a very small chance.

Steve

DJ88 · #5 02-02-2002, 02:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Imagine 1
A squirrel is running on a power line fine and dandy
Imagine 2
A squirrel has its hands touching the top wire (live) and its feet touching the middle wire (neutral)
Get where I'm getting at?

<hr></blockquote>

Nope. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] The squirrel will be fine. He hasn't grounded himself to allow current flow. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Unless he touched multiple HOT lines at once. But that is my take on hydro stuff.

Now if that same squirrel was to touch a power line then touch say a trolley cable line(which have different voltages) at the same time you will see a puff of fur. Potential difference is created and Mr. Squirrel becomes charcoal. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

To me a ground probe is a good thing. In a system with a GFCI(no system should be without one BTW) a ground probe will allow another path for any possible potential difference to be sensed by the GFCI and trip. That is ensuring you have the ground probe hooked into your tank.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>However, at the instant just right before the circuit is tripped, there's a large amount of current flowing through that saltwater body and anything in its path.
<hr></blockquote>

GFCI's trip with such a tiny amount of potential difference you would be fine. It happens so fast that even if your hands were in the H2O you may feel a little tiny zap. But not enough to hurt.

GORD! Where are you? you can explain this one.

<blockquote>quote

Quote:

also there is the chance that another voltage leak in your house could be introduces into your tank throught a ground probe but this is probably a very small chance.

If you have a voltage leak from your house circuitry you have some serious f*kin problems other than your tank having current leaked in. I have only seen ONE post about something like this. I don't know why this was brought up other than to mythinform. Sorry Steve, but if your house is leaking current INTO your tank you have some messed up wiring. Someone has screwed up royally. You would be more likely to die from plugging your microwave in than in your tank in a house with those problems.

<blockquote>quote

Quote:

after seeing all the problems laitly with people getting zaped (and they are using ground probes) I am not sure if they are a good thing.

If those people are getting zapped it is NOT due to a grounding probe. Period. It is due to bad equipment and no GFCI IMO.

BOTTOM LINE....
GET A GFCI & PLUG EVERYTHING INTO IT!

Also make sure you use quality equipment and ensure everything is plugged in AFTER the GFCI. plugging something into a circuit not protected by a GFCI into your tank with GFCI supplying power to the rest of the equipment will cause problems. The smallest of which will be the GFCI tripping constantly. If it doesn't trip for some reason you then are NOT protected and can be shocked(this means possibly killed).

Don't take electricity lightly. It doesn't care what it goes through. .5 of an amp will KILL you. Take a peek at most equipment you are running. You have the ability in your hands to kill yourself multiple times over.

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

titus · #6 02-02-2002, 02:20 PM

Hello,

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Nope. The squirrel will be fine. He hasn't grounded himself to allow current flow. Unless he touched multiple HOT lines at once. But that is my take on hydro stuff.

Now if that same squirrel was to touch a power line then touch say a trolley cable line(which have different voltages) at the same time you will see a puff of fur. Potential difference is created and Mr. Squirrel becomes charcoal.
<hr></blockquote>

I meant in "Imagine 2" that little squirrel is touching 2 sets of lines. Usually there are 3 lines running in between the hydro poles. The white one is neutral (usually middle) and the top and bottom one are the live ones. So if Mr. Squirrel was running on the middle (the neutral) and decides to place 2 out of 4 of his feets on either the top or bottom one. Then we see Mr. Zeus' lighting at work here.

Aside from that, Darren has a valid point in that GFCI trips so fast that nothing bad should be happening. But since this is the case, then why bother with a ground probe? Let's just use GFCI only and if some equipment failed and exposed its live components to the tank water, then let the tank floats. Afterall, we won't have to worry about getting electro-cuted since we have GFCI to trip if we are going to put our hands in there. This allows the tank to keep functioning in case we went away for a few days.
But bear in mind that I've heard cases when GFCI do not trip. So...... I guess we have to juggle between 1) allowing the tank to keep running by not using the ground probe to trip the GFCI when the owner is away, or 2) risk electro-killing yourself [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]

DJ88 · #7 02-02-2002, 02:22 PM

Ahh GOTCHA! I see what ya meant Titus.. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] sorry.. we were thinking the same thing.. I guess.. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

titus · #8 02-02-2002, 02:23 PM

Hello,

Darren is very true guys, go grab a GFCI. I know I use one myself.

Back in the good o' days when I used to be young and run around construction sites working as an electrician, I had a trick. Sometimes I never know whether the wires are live so a quicky test is to just touch them! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] And yes, I got a [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] everytime when it was live. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

DJ88 · #9 02-02-2002, 02:34 PM

Titus,

I have mentioned it before but..

Watched my boss on ship reach into an equipment rack that was supplied 120 2 phase and 440 three phase. He wanted to change a fuse for the 120. We(the other techs) said he should switch off the 440. He laughed joking about us youngins and not being aroudn the equipmant as long.. as he said this he reached in the cabinet and shorted himself across a 3" diameter fuse. He was thrown 6 fet into a bulkhead(wall for you landlubbers).

Moral of the story..

Don't mess with electricity. It will really mess with you.

titus · #10 02-02-2002, 05:56 PM

Hello,

Alright guys, no bad feelings here.
This is the facts I know are true:
1) Circuit breaker will trip if there's no GFCI and there's a ground probe
2) Circuit breaker won't trip if there's no GFCI and no ground probe (very dangerous if you place your hand in the tank as the current may not be enough to trip the breaker)
3) GFCI will trip whether or not there is a ground probe.

Bottom line, use a GFCI if you can. If you can't, use a ground probe.