First time salt questions

[Doormatt]

Thanks for the info Reeferaddict! I realize that in this hobby, there's always more than one way to skin a cat, but everything I've read so far follows what you said. I'd still love to hear from the BB crowd though!

Another question...

I've got a Fluval 304 Canister filter...If I take the sponges out, and fill it with live rock rubble, could it not act like a small refugium?

[reeferaddict]

That's the key... keep an open mind... identify what you're going to keep, then what you'll need to do to keep them... one of the "dead trees" that I wish I had in the beginning was Tullock's "Natural Reef Aquariums". This book is excellent at explaining the planning all the way from simple practical systems to elaborate automated systems. By keeping your mind open and inquisitive you are already on the right track. If you have a question, post it on the board and watch for the different opinions... none may be right for you, but at least you'll have the experience of a half dozen or so other people to draw on before you proceed.

For your questions - 250W MH is plenty of light in that tank... keep whatever you want as far as light demanding species go. Actinics IMO are the KEY to successfully keeping corals. SPS growing near the surface may be the exception, but anything a few feet deep require light in the 420 nm range for their symbiotic algae to photosynthesize. Coralline algae DEFINITELY need it. I believe that if your MH light is from 14000 K to 20000 K you may not need to supplement with actinics as these bulb temperatures will provide enough 420 nm light waves. If I were you I would run your MH for 8 hours, having your actinics come on 2 hours before and turning off 2 hours after.

Running your MH all the time would be quite hot... but you won't really know until you try it... definitely mount some fans in the hood. A light that big on a tank that small may require a chiller. Will you be running a sump?

As for RO/DI, I bought a unit in the spring, doing straight DI for 6 months before that, and I would never go back. First off, you have total control of what goes into your water. There are so many good reconstituting/salt mixes that you can pretty much duplicate the important natural seawater (NSW) concentrations and eliminate almost all your impurities. No worries about phosphates, silicates, etc. You will have battles with algae no matter what you do, and this is the beginning. Though I have heard of a few successes from people using tap water, I have noticed that almost ALL long term success starts with pure, clean water.

I don't think a Fluval cannister would work well for a refugium. How would you light it? A refugium is an area separated from the main tank that needs light to grow macroalgae, copeopods, etc. that aren't subject to grazers and predators. Usually a fairly low flow goes through the refugium to minimize disturbance.

While you're studying up, I also recommend you determine how you want to skim and create flow.

[Doormatt]

Reefer:

I'm quite worried about the heat output of a 250W MH...I'm hoping that two fans on the (to be built) hood will be all I need, as there's NO room in my budget (or my stand) for a chiller. I was hoping someone else with a similar configuration would chime in...then again, this post has only been here for a few hours.

I'm waiting to hear back from people in my area (there's more than a few on here), on our local water quality. So far, I'm not having any problems with my FW tanks, but then again, they're a lot more understanding than corals are.

As for the fluval refugium, I was thinking of using it more for copes, and less for macro. I'll admit my utter ignorance here, but do copes need light? I hadn't thought about the flow problem though. Is there any harm in using the fluval (full of LR rubble) for just filtration?

I'm planning on using 3 maxi-jet 600's to stir everything up, and that should provide 480Gph of flow, which is more than 10X the tank volume.

I'm not 100% sold on the need for a skimmer yet, as a lot of the DSB stuff I've read says they're not needed. Then again, everything else I've read says they are (don't you just love the net?). If I do, I've been looking at the remora, or the Prism hang-on. Then again, after doing a quick search, it seems the Prism is a waste of money, and people favor the remora (why does this not suprise me, the remora is over twice the price).

Thanks again for all your advice.

[reeferaddict]

You could run your cannister for extra biolgical filtration.... if you do, use aragonite gravel or something to give you maximum surface area, put your rock in the tank or sump.

I would strongly recommend running a skimmer to begin with. Skimmerless systems usually have some other form of filtration, ie planted refugia with Miracle Mud, or a Zeolite filter, but skimming is by far the easiest way to start amd get decent water quality. Skimming also offers the benefit of supercharged gas exchange which will make sure you will never have issues with oxygen and C02 levels... again though, there is no "right" way, just what works well for each individual setup.

I've never had a Remora but have read good things, I've had a Prizm, and for your size system should work allright, but you'll have to check it regularly and maintain your water level to get consistent skimming. Do keep in mind that when it comes to skimming, you get what you pay for...

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by reeferaddict

[. Lots of people doing SPS are going bare bottom to avoid sand storms due to the high flow of their systems. Sandbeds also tend to be an area where algae grows easily especially if there is low flow.

I would go bare bottom on any tank weather it was for softies or sps, the reason isn't beacvuse of sand storms it is because we can not properly run a DSB and they fail in time (some people sooner than others) also the other mail reason is that you need random current through out the tank in order to keep "crap" suspended for removal by your skimmer. a sand bed forces you to keep flow in the bottom 1/3 of the tank low allowing junk to build up in the sand bed. also there is more than enud denitrafacation in the live rock to handle the loads in a properly set up tank.

the DSB was a band wagon about 4 years ago and sence has been falling out of favor for the last two years due to the requirments of organisms required to make it sucessfull. acording to Dr. ron who was the original pusher of the DSB, we can only keep about 10% of the critters required to make them work, and that they load up with heavy metals and such and can cause problems down the road. from my own experiance and that of others as the mature they cause algae problems.

as for lighting you can put thoes on no problem, softies like light to I would even go as far as to say skip the PC lighting and run a VHO or two of actinic for color ballance.


Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Your lighting is fine. You could live with just the MH and be fine (and add one or two actinics for asthetics - for looks).

DSBs are fine as long as you don't treat them as self-sustaining systems. They need maintainance every so often. They need lots of critters to stir the sand and keep it alive. However, DSBs are far from natural since our tanks are too small to sustain DSBs for very long periods of time. That's why DSBs rarely work in small tanks and they need to be refilled with critters every so often.

BBs are one of the oldest techniques - predates plenums. The idea there is that its easy to spot fish poop and ditrus - so you can vacumm it right away and remove the waste product before it becomes nitrates. The filtration is done through other means such as live rocks, skimmers and other means.

Get a skimmer - the big skimmers from coralife are better deal than remora(prism are a waste of money in my opinion). Its only $100 - nothing compared to what you'll spend on corals, fish and animals for your DSB.

- Victor.

[ron101]

Here's another no vote for DSBs.

I ran one and in a couple years it became a nutrient factory for algae and the corals stopped growing. Unfortunately most of the articles on the subject promote the theoretical benefits but fail to mention the long term realities. The high initial cost of all that sand, the constant restocking with detrivore kits, and the questionable long term success rate do indeed make DSB's oldschool. Now I run an inch or so of crushed coral (one bag-cheap) and vacuum it with every water change (labour is free). Save yourself the money, the water volume, and future headache and go CC or BB.

As for the halides and heat. Almost everyone running them in the lower mainland has some heat concerns in the summer time. Raising the light, shortening the duration, providing air circulation across the water surface, and reducing the number of powerheads are ways of managing.

HTH

[Bob I]

Originally Posted by reeferaddict

Actinics IMO are the KEY to successfully keeping corals. SPS growing near the surface may be the exception, but anything a few feet deep require light in the 420 nm range for their symbiotic algae to photosynthesize. Coralline algae DEFINITELY need it.

Just how difficult is it to understand that full spectrum light near the surface contains ALL the wavelenths. Deeper down some wavelengths are filtered out leaving only the blues.

Therefore one does not "need" actinics if one is supplying full spectrum lighting., simply because we are already supplying the 420nm light. It is purely for aesthetics that we use actinics.

I fully realise this is a rehash of stuff we have gone through time and time again. However, it seems that it bears repeating.