Hi all! my first post here

[chicki]

Hi,
OK, my set up is 6 months old now. I have a 180 gal, refugium, large UV unit, 4 cleaner shrimp, 2 cleaner gobies, 1 cleaner wrasse (had 2) The powdeblue was the last fish to be added. When I first started out I quarantined fish, but had a terrible time (20 gal) with the water parameters and ended up loosing a fish because of it. I decided after that that I was going to just take my chances in the main tank and was lucky up to now. I figured (like so many) that if my fish were all healthy and were not stressed that they would not "be effected" by the ich. My water parameters were great! I fed 4 times a day (at least) a huge variety of foods always with added garlic, zoe and selco. I had a UV, cleaner shrimp etc. Well I couldn't have been more wrong.
"Elvis" (PBT) was a beautiful specimen, brightly colored and fat. He came into the LFS the night before and was eating right away. I immeditately brought him home. (before he got contaminated??) He paced here for a mere 48 hours and settled right down and within 5 days was eating right out of my hand!! On the eighth day I woke up to a fish with white spots! Since then I've lost these fish in this order...bi-colored blenny, gramma, mated pair of manderins, 2 little clowns.
According to my daughters invert book (this is a unniversity book in which is taught to pre-vet students) I'd imagine it would be right on. It states that cryptocaryon is a abligate parasite. That means it CANNOT survive without a period of growth on a fish (its host). It does not "just exist in a tank" It states- the free swimming parasites burrow into the skin, fins and gills and feed on the body's fluids and cells. The mature parasites emerge from the skin and evolve into an enclosed cyst within a few hours and attach to a solid surface. The cell divides to produce 1000 or more infective stages while inside the cyst. When the freeswimming stages are released upon the cyst breaking open they MUST find a fish host with 24 hours or THEY WILL DIE. This is the cycle.
I do and will continueing feeding garlic soaked feeds... who knows I could have lost more had I not been feeding the garlic?? I've also noticed that some fish are really into getting "cleaned" and some aren't. Elvis and Lola didn't like it and I never saw them getting cleaned...nor any of the fish that were overcome with it. The surviving ones spent a lot of time at the "cleaning stations"??
Robert, I would love to read that article you mentioned.
Have a great day!

[stephane]

Ick is alway present in you tank but mosly not on the fish it stay in the water colum

I have 3 tang in my 130 for severale years it's been a long time since I have not buy a new fish an last summer when I move my tank all fish that where there for severale years caught the ick due to the stess and temperature fluctuation

The best medication I found is do noting but feed them and NEVER try to cath them for a quarantine it will only make it more sick and could even make the fish die because stress is a major factore in fish healt

Here I talk of a reef whith a good water quality if you have this you dont need anyting else

[stephane]

Ho and a cleaner shrimp will elp greatly to get rid of the ick! It's the best medication you could put in your tank + they are so cute and funy!!!!!

[stephane]

Originally posted by chicki:
Hi,

According to my daughters invert book (this is a unniversity book in which is taught to pre-vet students) I'd imagine it would be right on. It states that cryptocaryon is a abligate parasite. That means it CANNOT survive without a period of growth on a fish (its host). It does not "just exist in a tank" It states- the free swimming parasites burrow into the skin, fins and gills and feed on the body's fluids and cells. The mature parasites emerge from the skin and evolve into an enclosed cyst within a few hours and attach to a solid surface. The cell divides to produce 1000 or more infective stages while inside the cyst. When the freeswimming stages are released upon the cyst breaking open they MUST find a fish host with 24 hours or THEY WILL DIE. This is the cycle.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I tink your book is rong because ick have alway find is way in my tank after some stress

Sorry for your lost I realy doubt that ick have kill your healty fish and I tink more of another silent killer that you have not see and introduce whith the last fish

[Aquattro]

Originally posted by stephane:
Ho and a cleaner shrimp will elp greatly to get rid of the ick! It's the best medication you could put in your tank + they are so cute and funy!!!!!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This assumes the shrimp is inclined to clean the fish. Mine isn't.

[chicki]

Sorry Stephanie, but I just don't agree with you at all. But it's always interesting discussing different people's opinions about it! There is also a real good article on it by Terry Siegel in the 2002 marine magizine.
When you moved your tank and fish did you add any liverock or anything like that??
Your idea that only stressed fish get ich doesn't make much sense to me. It's like someone telling me that if I'm not stressed and walk through the woods..then the ticks won't climb on me???? but if I'm stressed then the ticks will get under my skin???

[stephane]

Hey Brad! get that shrimp back or show him a baked shrimp and eat it maybe she will start to work!

[stephane]

Originally posted by chicki:
When you moved your tank and fish did you add any liverock or anything like that??
Your idea that only stressed fish get ich doesn't make much sense to me. It's like someone telling me that if I'm not stressed and walk through the woods..then the ticks won't climb on me???? but if I'm stressed then the ticks will get under my skin???

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I have not added anyting to the tank not even a snail

I kept saltwater fish for more than ten years and I found that a fish who is stress will alway get some sickness because there imune system will not react + a stressed fish will loose there slimy protection on is skin

I have found that most of the time when someone try to catch a fish quarantine him and try to give medication they mostly die on the other hand if you simply let the fish alone he will most of the time recovert

LFS try to sale all kind of miracle cure but after 10 years Im alway septical and I realy trust more mother nature :D

Dont forget that all medecine agree that stress will kill even a human been in a very short time

[ 19 September 2002, 18:03: Message edited by: stephane ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

When fish get sufficiently stressed or water conditions change, the slim that protects the fish will temporarily fall off. Under these conditions, any disease or ick can easily attack the fish with no mercy. Something like a tank change can do that.

Ick is a fairly neat little bug. It is true that Ick can only survive if there is a host. Unless your reef is 100% sterile, there will be enough pods, shrimp and other decaying foods to keep a very small population of ick alive for a very long time. So, it is almost impossible to get rid of ick. I think of it as hair algae or cyano...you think you got them last time, but they are always lurking around for another opportunity. That's my opninon of ick.

- Victor.

[robert]

How is it possible for Stephane to have ich without any new additions to the tank? The following may explain.

"Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis) or the equivalent marine form, Cryptocaryon irritans, are protozoan ectoparasites commonly encountered on ornamental fishes. Both parasites can cause significant mortalities especially when fish are in a crowded situation or experiencing various levels of stress. Both protozoans may be present on fish as a carrier state infection, mainly on wild-caught fish or fish that have been cultivated in ponds. The carrier state infection is a rather common condition and a major means for the spread of ich in the aquarium fish trade."
You may read more here.

What a long thread we created :D :D :D My last post on this subject, I promise.

[ 20 September 2002, 00:45: Message edited by: pirate ]