ICh

[seanoman]

Ever tried "no sick fish"?? They have a treatment for ich that worked really well for our tank. It is safe on inverts and corals, you just add it to your main system. Make sure that you remove all of your filtration though. Not sure if they sell it in Calgary but Hidden Reef carries it or did carry it a little while ago. Check out the website: www.nosickfish.com
It is a little pricey but I would definately recommend it. It's 1 drop per 25 gallons everyday for 1 week.

[Big Al's BC]

Rudy,
A FOWLR setup can be very difficult to maintain parasite free when you are dealing with predators such as puffers etc. It is true as Drew stated that Cleaner wrasse do not remove Ich, rather the tissue etc. that is damaged from parasites and other minor injuries on a day to day basis.
If you have "full blown Ich" on these fish in question then we agree in removing them from the system and treating immediately in a lower salinity and higher temperature, maybe 82 degrees. Although live rock is a great biological filter and natural surrounding for the fish, the price you pay is the inability to medicate. In our experience with the feeding demands on predators, and using a FOWLR system, this will not be the last time you experience this. The waste levels are much higher then a typical fish only system, and the aggression between species will increase stress levels.
Are you running a UV sterilizer? If not that would be a must in this type of system. Proper sizing and flow rates are key for a successful kill rate of Ich. Circulation in the aquarium can probably be increased to reduce dead spots as well where the eggs accumulate as does organic waste. Is there a protein skimmer on the system? Hypo-salinity can help as suggested but your best prevention is with a UV and removing the fish and treating in a quarantine tank.

Good luck,
Big Al's BC

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by rudy

MY FOWLR has ich. Cowfish and the porcupine (both very small are affected the most)

Is there any way to treat this? I have heard it is very difficult.

*NO DONT USE COPPER ON EITHER FISH. Seriously its a hit and miss! You will likely miss. There is other methods. The scaless fish do not respond to copper treament. I have seen it time and time again. Porcupines & cowfish BOTH die in copper treatment. What happens is they produce a slim that fogs their eyes and the mucus smothers them, not being able to breath and they will stop eating within the second day.

ALSO - its a double edge sword as well cause if the cowfish is stressed before it dies, well bye bye rest of fish as it can release its toxin. This also depends what KIND of boxfish you have??

First of, how many other fish do you have that are effected? Depending on the state of the fish being infected, you can treat naturally. Also depends how many fish your working with.

Here is some tips to help before treatment - ich:

1. Is your tank a FOWL only? Keep the tank PITCH DARK! Seriously. Ich falls off the fish, falling in the substrate (sand) and hatches and moves up towards the light. Keep the lights OUT! It not only calms the fish but helps the ich from finding your fish (host).

2. Get a fresh clump of ginger from Safeway (0.20 cents) soak and crush in their food. Remember to feed them in the dark. Also you can trade it up with crushed garlic on the other feeding days.

3. do lots of water changes.

4. If you have too many fish to treat, buy UV sterilizer.


There is only 3 methods to rid ich,

1. Copper - DO NOT use on these fish
2. Hyposalinity - very time consuming, requires a refractometer (accurate salinity monitor very slowly) and hypo can't be performed in the main tank. As it will create a big spike once it gets to 1.016 and kills everything including substrate and rock.
3. Jumping the parasite- as I like to call it. - a series of tub transfers (rubbermaid containers) in clean water each time. Reduces the salinity as you go, aerate the water tons, cupping the fish between transfers with NO netting (especially boxfish that get spooked and try to jump & porcupines panic and then puff, usually in your net. By no netting it reduces stress. BIG TIME! Try it! Anyway.. this is a method I have used for years on all my scareless fish friends. If your interested I will give you all the details on how to do.

For preventative treatment - I do suggest a UV sterilizer, like mentioned above. Especially with a FOWL tank. It's no reason not to. At times, depending on the fish and how bad the ich is, you can run a UV sterilizer and always have ich but it will keep it under control. Some people can have ich forever in their tanks but it keeps it at bay with UV. But again it really depends on many factors.


Hope this helps.

[rudy]

Ich is getting worse and just lost my flame angel. I have tried the lowered salinity and the garlic. I am going to get a uv sterilizer. Thanks for the help everyone

[Pan]

Originally Posted by rudy

Ich is getting worse and just lost my flame angel. I have tried the lowered salinity and the garlic. I am going to get a uv sterilizer. Thanks for the help everyone

Sorry to hear, I still think if hyposalinty didn't cure it, the uv won't help...besides it will kill a lot of good things to.

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by 'Ol Nobodaddy

Sorry to hear, I still think if hyposalinty didn't cure it, the uv won't help...besides it will kill a lot of good things to.

He's got a good point. Sounds like its pretty bad.


turn the lights out! KEEP TANK PITCH BLACK! or start transfering fish to rubbermaid containers, still keeping it in a pitch black room!!! Make sure to only get 37L rubbermaids, and include FRESH mixed water only, same temp, same salinity. Include a heater, air line (bubbles) and thats all you need. The bigger the rubbermaid the better. Now only 4 fish per rubbermaid. This is a lot of work but helps the fish not to be reinfected. Jump fish everyday. No not net, use a small cup. Transfer in low light. Have any questions, let me know. Eitherway, KEEP LIGHTS OFF AND ROOM DARK DARK! IT does help.

[Pan]

Originally Posted by bulletsworld

He's got a good point. Sounds like its pretty bad.


turn the lights out! KEEP TANK PITCH BLACK! or start transfering fish to rubbermaid containers, still keeping it in a pitch black room!!! Make sure to only get 37L rubbermaids, and include FRESH mixed water only, same temp, same salinity. Include a heater, air line (bubbles) and thats all you need. The bigger the rubbermaid the better. Now only 4 fish per rubbermaid. This is a lot of work but helps the fish not to be reinfected. Jump fish everyday. No not net, use a small cup. Transfer in low light. Have any questions, let me know. Eitherway, KEEP LIGHTS OFF AND ROOM DARK DARK! IT does help.

Ich livespan is 6 weeks, after that without fishys it dies off...I'm not sure it its 6 weeks to the day, but that is always what I have been told. So if you can cure your fish and keep them out of the main tank for 6 weeks you should be okay.

[hawk]

Check-out http://forum.marinedepot.com/ Kelly Jedilicki (aka Pufferqueen) is the disease mod. IMO She has been giving the best advice on the net when it comes to fish disease. Coincidentely she is also a puffer expert. By raising temp the ick lifecycle and reproduction may be happening faster but all it will do for the fish is to make it even harder to breath. At one time raising temp was the norm, a left-over from treating fw ick where it does have some merit but marine ick is different. Temp manipulation is discussed briefly here, as well as uv and other treatments. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2004/mini4.htm Good-luck

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by 'Ol Nobodaddy

Ich livespan is 6 weeks, after that without fishys it dies off...I'm not sure it its 6 weeks to the day, but that is always what I have been told. So if you can cure your fish and keep them out of the main tank for 6 weeks you should be okay.

Yes, this is true. I assumed people already know that when you read up on ich. Sorry I never mentioned that. The tub transfer is alot more detailed then I mentioned above. I have posted it in detail on the boards here in the past, you can do a search or let me know and I will post again.

But the main tank regardless has to remain empty of fish for at the very least 40 days. At the time the main tank is empty (of fish), you raise the temp of the main tank past 80-84 to speed up the parasites life cycle.

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by hawk

By raising temp the ick lifecycle and reproduction may be happening faster but all it will do for the fish is to make it even harder to breath. At one time raising temp was the norm, a left-over from treating fw ick where it does have some merit but marine ick is different. Temp manipulation is discussed briefly here, as well as uv and other treatments. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2004/mini4.htm Good-luck

Thats right, it may speed the lifecycle of the parasite but is harder on the fish. Making the fish not only breath heavier, but make the fish exhausted. Again the reproducing of the Ich also comes faster. Turning the heat up, is not a cure, its speeding up the process. After your main tank is empty then turning up the heat is good, but not before. Understanding the lifecyle of the parasite is key.


Turn off your lights. I tell ya, it works. This is only to buy you time till you treat the ich. If you turn the lights on before the 10 days. Your fish will be the most infected, as ich moves towards the light.



Hope this helps ya.