Sick Fish...HELP! (Newbie)

[63valiantragtop]

Hi there...

I have a 90Gal set-up with love rock, 30gal sump, overflow,skimmer...

I bought the tank 2nd hand (about 3 months ago) and it was already running but with a fluval 404 filter. I saved about 80% of the water at the time I moved and reset it.

I wanted to change to the sump/skimmer.

The tank already came with one large (about 10'') Naso Tang and one small oscillarus clown. I added a few small angels, a toby puffer and a butterfly.

I had a nightmare of a time getting it all reset-up, but it is now done.

Now that I finally got everything running my fish are sick...and dying.

I have lost one small bi-color angel and the Threadfin Butterfly. My puffer is discolored and hanging by a thread. My big Naso Tang has spots all over him (but not white and "ich" like)...more like lil' black marks and his eyes are a lil' cloudy and he seems to be "resting" on the bottom alot, which he has never done before.

They still eat well at feeding time.

I was told by a guy at Big Al's to use this "no sick fish" medication. It is the size of an eye dropper and cost me $80! I have been using this for 3 days and see either no improvement or if anything it is worse...

Can anyone give me any suggestions?? I am new to saltwater and I am dires straits here....

I can post pix or water quality reports if that would help.

Thanks alot.

Jason.

[fishmanty]

A picture could help a bit, but we need to know more about the water parameters to help you out completely.

[63valiantragtop]

Hi again...re: my previous post

Here are my water test results.

Amonia- 0.6
(I have some products and have been trying to bring this down...I have "Cycle", "Prime" and "Amquel")

Nitrite- 0.1

PH- 8.4

KH- 90 mg/L

Salinity- 1.021

I will try and post a pic of my Naso Tang with his black marks ASAP.

As said before all other fish just appaear lazy and "sitting" on the ground in between my rock and just faded in color and some small whitish cloudy marks on fins (but again does not look like what I would know from freshwater as to be Ich (?)

Thanks to any and all for your help...

Jason

[BMW Rider]

The presence of the ammonia and nitrite suggest that the tank is going through a new cycle or there was just too large of an increase in the bio load. There should be zero ammonia and nitrite for the fish to survive. The best thing to do, would be to save the remaining fish by moving them to an established tank. That might mean returning them to a LFS if you don't have a tank available. Then wait for the cycle to finish so that there is zero ammonia and nitrite. Ideally the nitrate should also be very low or zero also. You can reduce the nitrate with water changes, but not before the cycle is finished, that will just prolong it. As for the chemical additives, they are largely useless in my experience at speeding up the cycle process. Nothing is going to work like time.

Then you can begin to restock - 1 fish at a time preferably to allow the nitrifying bacteria population time to grow to meet the bio load. When you do start to restock, select your fish carefully. Several angels in a tank will fight for dominance. Usually only one species of dwarf angel can be kept in all but very large tanks. Some fish should not be kept together at all. Some should be last additions because of their aggressive natures. Some fish will not be suitable due to the tanks size, even at 90 gallons, a 10" tang is way too big for the tank. Tangs need big tanks, a smaller species would be better suited to your tank. A general rule of thumb for stocking is 1" per 5-10 gallons (like any rule of thumb though, it is hardly an exact science). That would allow you to have an eventual maximum bioload of 9 -18 inches of fish.

You should also invest in a quarantine tank for all new fish. Bring them home, put them in QT and keep them there until you are sure they are not bringing along unwanted diseases. Usually four weeks is reccomended, but less time may be accaptable for healthy fish. This also allows them to get over all the stress of capture and shipping before having to fight for a spot in their new home. A good QT setup would be a 10 or 20 gallon starter tank like the pakage setups sold by most pet stores. Toss the decorations and gravel and keep the tank bare. A few short pieces of PVC pipe are all that is need to provide hiding spots for the fish. You will need to have this tank set up and cycled as well before you can use it.

One of the best investment you can make to start off right is in a few good reference books. It'll give you something to do while you wait for the cycle to finish.

[digital-audiophile]

I also noticed that your salinty is really low. I know most like to keep it around the 1.024-1.025 range.

[63valiantragtop]

Thanks again for your advice guys...

So at this level of Amonia is this what is possibly Killing my fish?

Also does anyone know if ANY of these products do ANYTHING at all?

I have "Amquel" which a pet store told me does something to bind with the Amonia and then it is reoved?

I have "Prime" which says "Removes Chlorin,Chloramin and Amonia and provides a Slime Coat"

And I spent $80 on a tiny bottle of stuff called "No Sick Fish" from Big Al's...

Any slight possiblity any of this can save my fish?

Thanks again.

JASON

[63valiantragtop]

PS- sorry about the typos....I am actually not completely illiterate.

I just run downstairs to see my tank and my fish languishing close to oblivion then smash my head off a wall as punishment for stupidity....then come type something again, (so my spelling is a lil' off) lol

Cheers!

JASON

[Johnny Reefer]

Originally Posted by 63valiantragtop

.... Also does anyone know if ANY of these products do ANYTHING at all?.....

I use Prime for chlorine removal. I didn't even know it removes ammonia until today, so I'm not sure about that. But it's the best for chlorine removal, IMO.

Cycle is a big waste of money, IMO. I've used it to start new tanks, particularly freshwater. I also used to use it religiously once a week in my FW tanks. Finally, in looking for areas to cut costs, I asked myself "Why am I adding bacteria to my tanks when they already have bacteria in them". So I took the question to my LFS and the manager advised me that ya, it's a waste of money. BTW, Cycle is like 95% water, or something like that. I can't remember if I used it when I started in SW. But I would never think of using it for SW start up now. Live Rock and a scoop or two of Live Sand is all you really need. A few cheap fish, like Chromis, would help the cycle too. If you put enough Live Rock in you may get no cycle at all. Long story short: dump the Cycle.

Not familiar with Aquamel or No Sick Fish.

Prime: Thumbs up.
Cycle: Thumbs down.

HTH and cheers,

PS: I agree that the Naso is too big for a 90. Get a bigger tank or find a new home for it, IMO.