100W LED Multi Chip

BobFish · #1 10-27-2012, 05:26 AM

I have come across a thread where there is a group buy going on to buy 100W Multi chips for what seems a good price that someone has brokered with a Chinese manufacturer. You can see link here, and please I have no attachment to this other than to buy my own 100W chips in thier group buy!
http://www.sandiegoreefs.com/forums/...481#post764481

SeaHorse_Fanatic · #2 10-27-2012, 05:49 AM

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I had my 10w emitters turned way down and still burned some of my corals until they adapted to LEDs. I can't imagine trying to light my tank with 100w emitters. They'd have to be dimmed almost off at first and the corals right underneath would really take a beating I think. (I talked about 100w emitters with my LED buddy & he is of the same opinion that they'd be too powerful for our application).

Lots of people thought I was a little crazy going with 10 watters and now they're going with 100w emitters?

I would also ask the manufacturer what kind of warranty is on those since they are well over $100 each. At least with the 3 to 10w, you're looking at only a few dollars per, so if one burns out early, it doesn't hurt.

According to the thread, they recommend one 100w emitter per 2' x 2' area. For 10w emitters, I use roughly 7 so 70w at full power. The advantage is that if one of mine burns out, the light from neighbouring emitters covers for it. With these 100w emitters, using only 3 over a 6' x 2' tank, if one burns out, a third of my tank is dark.

Just something to think about. With less than 20 out of the needed 50 emitters ordered, I doubt that this gb will actually take place anyways.

Does anybody have a link to a reef tank that is actually using 100w emitters? I think hearing someone's personal experience with using 100w emitters over their corals will be the best info for this new technology.

Cheers,

Anthony

BobFish · #3 10-27-2012, 06:12 AM

Well i think they have a 30000 hr warranty, and that's a long ways away and by then there will be the next best thing. I've be following some of the diy on led's on reef central and yes for the first bit u will have to tune them down.
Just can't see all that wiring and and extra fans, just my opinion. Think they will be what i want to try.
The company that is making them, are putting it together as per the groups instructions of what they want, the group has already done one buy, but i was not part of that. You can read about the first group buy here.
http://www.sandiegoreefs.com/forums/...anel-Group-Buy

mike31154 · #4 10-27-2012, 02:26 PM

Some valid pros & cons already mentioned re going with fewer, large multi chip LEDs. Although my build also uses 10 watters, I've been following the huge thread on RC about the 100 watt emitters with interest. There's still a lot of wiring involved in doing up a 10 watt array for larger tanks and this could be averted by using 3 or 4 of the 100 watters, similar to a halide pendant set up. You need to use optics & mount them up high. The con, already mentioned is the price, although when you consider some folks pay upwards of $60 for a Metal Halide bulb,.... that needs changing at 6 months or so....

The group buy linked to in this thread involves a custom colour multi chip designed specifically for reef tanks. If you're looking for single colour 100 watt multi chips, they can be had for as little as $30 these days on fleabay. I don't think the price they want for these fancy emitters is over the top considering they are a custom design with the ratio of colours packed on to the single chip deemed ideal for reef tanks. The chip also has the capability of being driven using 5 or 6 channels to mix/tune the colours to your liking.

I have a post on Aquttro's LED supplementation thread relating similar info & including the photo below, of Mr. Wilson's 100 watt pendants. Here's the photo & check the link to Aquattro thread, post #75. If you want to know more about 100 watt emitter's & their performance, Mr. Wilson is a good source, he runs a shop in the Toronto area.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...911#post757911

Tank in Mr. Wilson's shop lit by 100 watt LED pendants.

StirCrazy · #5 10-27-2012, 02:39 PM

I don't think thoes are good color combanations, first they will be very blue and second they are missing colors that will bring out the reds in your tank.

now if they replaced 2/3 of the cool white with a nutral white I think that would be a lot better, but as they sit I wouldn't waist my money.

I do like the idea of a 100 watt LED as you could do smaller tanks with 1 small pendant. you can pick up a 100 watt 4500K chip for about 60 bucks so I kinda question the price of these also.

I was wondering if you could put different colors on a chip, now I know you can. I have a high school buddy who lives in china and is the ceo of a large exporting company who also do LEDs I wonder what kinda deal I could get for us.

Steve

burgerchow · #6 10-27-2012, 04:20 PM

My kessil a350 s. aka. Tuna bles are 90 watt multichip LEDs made by their sister company Dicon.

mr.wilson · #7 11-07-2012, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

I don't think thoes are good color combanations, first they will be very blue and second they are missing colors that will bring out the reds in your tank.

now if they replaced 2/3 of the cool white with a nutral white I think that would be a lot better, but as they sit I wouldn't waist my money.

I do like the idea of a 100 watt LED as you could do smaller tanks with 1 small pendant. you can pick up a 100 watt 4500K chip for about 60 bucks so I kinda question the price of these also.

I was wondering if you could put different colors on a chip, now I know you can. I have a high school buddy who lives in china and is the ceo of a large exporting company who also do LEDs I wonder what kinda deal I could get for us.

Steve

I really don't get the popularity of 4500 & 4100K yellow/green chips. LEDs are generally "whiter" than MH of the same advertised colour temp so they are like using 3600k MH. For the past 30 years fluorescent and MH users have abandoned anything below 10k, so what's with the retro yellow/green chips?

Warm white chips have very little blue and lots of green, but they are also weak in reds. If you want red, then add dedicated 660nm red chips. If you want green, 7,500K Cree chips are extremely green as they are designed as desk lamps.

mr.wilson · #8 11-07-2012, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaHorse_Fanatic

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I had my 10w emitters turned way down and still burned some of my corals until they adapted to LEDs. I can't imagine trying to light my tank with 100w emitters. They'd have to be dimmed almost off at first and the corals right underneath would really take a beating I think. (I talked about 100w emitters with my LED buddy & he is of the same opinion that they'd be too powerful for our application).

Lots of people thought I was a little crazy going with 10 watters and now they're going with 100w emitters?

I would also ask the manufacturer what kind of warranty is on those since they are well over $100 each. At least with the 3 to 10w, you're looking at only a few dollars per, so if one burns out early, it doesn't hurt.

According to the thread, they recommend one 100w emitter per 2' x 2' area. For 10w emitters, I use roughly 7 so 70w at full power. The advantage is that if one of mine burns out, the light from neighbouring emitters covers for it. With these 100w emitters, using only 3 over a 6' x 2' tank, if one burns out, a third of my tank is dark.

Just something to think about. With less than 20 out of the needed 50 emitters ordered, I doubt that this gb will actually take place anyways.

Does anybody have a link to a reef tank that is actually using 100w emitters? I think hearing someone's personal experience with using 100w emitters over their corals will be the best info for this new technology.

Cheers,

Anthony

What kind of PAR where you getting with the 10w emitters. I find 50w multichips are not bright enough for most tanks and I can't see 10w chips working for even a nano tank. The bleaching was probably due to spectrum (quality) not PAR (intensity).

mike31154 · #9 11-07-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

What kind of PAR where you getting with the 10w emitters. I find 50w multichips are not bright enough for most tanks and I can't see 10w chips working for even a nano tank. The bleaching was probably due to spectrum (quality) not PAR (intensity).

While I realize the 3 watt Cree emitters so popular today are more efficient than most multichips, your statement about not even 50 watt multichips being enough for some tanks might have the Cree diy'ers & even folks with Radions that use single chip discrete LEDs wondering?

My build uses 27 of the 10 watt multichip emitters (3 rows of 9) and hanging 6 & 1/2 inches above the water without optics they do just fine (4 foot, 77 gallon Hagen tank). I don't have a par meter & not an sps heavy system, but the coral I have (incl. montipora) is doing as well or better than under my previous MH/T5HO set up. BTAs are looking better than ever as well. Come to think of it, for months I've been underdriving my 10 watt LEDs since it's a somewhat unconventional build using constant voltage power supplies controlled by manual dimming. After doing some current measurements recently, I've cranked up the voltage but still below the 9-12 volt specified forward voltage for the emitters I'm using.

IMO it really depends on density (number of emitters), spacing, spectrum, height above water, optics etc. as to whether a certain set up is going to work well for any given tank. That could be 1 watt, 3 watt discrete LEDs or multichips of pretty much any size. The smd LEDs used to make a 10 watt multichip are essentially the same as those used to make the larger multichips. The big boys simply have more of them packed on to the substrate. Your pendants are mounted high with optics, my build is closer to the water surface with no optics.

Before embarking on my 10 watt build I also had a look at the larger multichips but was a bit nervous about how the emitters are crammed on to the larger chips. Obviously heat management is key or one of these is going to cook in short order & you're out a few $$$s. The 10 watt multis look to me to be well spaced with only 3 rows of 3 chips in a series/parallel arrangement. Seems to me that they are less likely to self destruct due to a momentary overheat issue, but that's just an opinion, although my set up has been running since April with no failures. A downside to the smaller chips is more wiring, a few hours with the soldering iron getting them all hooked up. Pros/cons either way, but as mentioned there are plenty of ways to make different LED configs work these days with even more on the horizon.

lastlight · #10 11-07-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike31154

While I realize the 3 watt Cree emitters so popular today are more efficient than most multichips, your statement about not even 50 watt multichips being enough for some tanks might have the Cree diy'ers & even folks with Radions that use single chip discrete LEDs wondering?

Mike I think he was referring to the 10W and 50W emitters as standalone without multiples in an array.