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#1
07-12-2010, 08:41 PM
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SPS frag selling guidelines v1.2
The last reefers meeting we talked about some hobbyist selling guidelines for frags. Below are some suggestions. Please feel free to comment and I will compile the ideas:
Guidelines for SPS Frag selling/buying V 1.2 1. Declare lighting conditions picture was taken - the camera can also make a difference, with white balance - Disclosure if picture was "photoshopped" - Picture of the mother colony if possible 2. Frags should be at least 1/2 inch or larger or an accurate size measurement should be posted - size helps the survivability 3. Frags should be pest free / iodine dipped ( at the buyer or the seller end ) - dipped the corals before packaging since this would increase the corals' stress during shipping - should really be the buyer who does the dipping because in the end the only one you can trust is yourself 4. Frags should be on established bases( sometimes not possible) - frags should be established and healed before being sold - Coral growing on the plug is a good indication of health - Sometimes it is not possible to establish growth on the plug...sometimes I frag/mount/sell this is more a time issue. - unmounted frags are less stressed 5. Price is what the market will bear - guideline for pricing is approximately 1/2-2/3 market value - the point is supporting others in the hobby and keeping the private trade alive by offering pieces at non retail prices. - hobbyist prices should not be over 30.00/Frag...anything over...it better be rare 6. Return policy up to the seller / buyer - communication is key idea and if I knew the person I would be more keen on giving another frag should the original have problems. - For private buying and selling there is always risk on each side of the fence, and there should always be an agreement of expectations before the transaction is made. - Canreef is not a forum for disputes. Deal with them though other means before going public 7. Buyer beware. ie: you going to buy a frag from a member that has no pics or reputation. - Word of mouth is probably the best thing. - Ask other Canreefer,s privately what they think Notable comments 1. The biggest point I see in selling frags is just to keep "backups" of your colonies and in the end I think it helps protect the wild colonies and your own. If something should happen to your tank (ie crash, flood, pests etc) and you lost your most prized piece I would hope that there would be someone out there with a frag that's able to replace your colony. I would argue that it probably won't bring profit unless done on a large scale and in the end I believe helping others whether it'd be a neat coral or helping a beginner out in return some of them will help you out when you need it. Of course there will be people looking to make big bucks selling tiny tiny frags or people that will take advantage of that I don't mind because most of the reefing community in large is quite nice and friendly. 2. For what it's worth, I might consider referring to this guide as more of a 'code of ethics' since that's really what it's all about. 3. I think the main point about pricing frags is to be reasonable about it. A 1 eye chalice frag may be worth $250 but keep in mind that it is mostly non limited sps (ie not ORA, Tyrees, GARF Purple Bonsai etc) we are talking about, just colourful pieces without a "special" name. The rare LPS supply is still quite small and there's a substantial demand for pieces and that would justify some of the prices. IMO I don't think its fair to give someone a single polyp and hope it survives for some ridiculous price even if it was well established and personally I wouldn't blow $250 on a single polyp, eye, etc "rare" frag no matter how pretty it is. Livestock doesn't depreciate in our tanks but the point is supporting others in the hobby and keeping the private trade alive by offering pieces at non retail prices. Last edited by fencer; 07-14-2010 at 05:48 PM. 
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#2
07-12-2010, 09:12 PM
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1. the camera can also make a difference, with white balance...
2. why would you place restrictions on size, some grow slow some grow fast... the rarer, and harder to grow one's will sometimes be smaller which is preferrable to lower a price to obtainable for some people... 3. I hope you guys didnt think long and hard over this one. 4. you always run the risk of pest's, ignorant or not, I like to believe if people knowingly have something they will make mention of it. Regardless, this is more at the buyers end to inspect and treat before adding to their tank. 5. alot of people recommend tossing the base of aquacultured coral's. 6. refer to 3. most people ive seen selling are not for profit but for space issues, the more difficult it is, the less likely they will hit the next persons hand rather then the trash.
__________________
Two clownfish were in a tank. One says to the other, how do i drive this thing?
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#3
07-12-2010, 09:18 PM
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I think communication between buyer and seller is of utmost importance. I believe all sellers should have an arrive alive shipping guarantee provided the package arrives on time and as agreed upon. If the package arrives late, then it would be the buyer's responsibility to buy insurance. Sometimes insurance isn't available for live shipments in which case I think buyers should be refunded/credited for the value of the frags minus shipping. For private buying and selling there is always risk on each side of the fence, and there should always be an agreement of expectations before the transaction is made.
Personally, I like to buy unmounted SPS frags as I find they tend to ship better, and I can choose what they get mounted to. I would also be rather PO'd if the seller dipped the corals before packaging since this would increase the corals' stress during shipping. I think dipping should remain the buyer's choice...I have received infested corals from vendors as well as private sales. A good guideline for pricing is approximately 1/2-2/3 market value (which is debatable). Last edited by Myka; 07-12-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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#4
07-12-2010, 09:20 PM
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reason 2 was to prevent somebody from selling "skin flap" Also I would never buy yet a quarter inch frag. It would have to be pretty rare. The larger the frag the better the survivial rate
I personally hate bases but I ask if people want them...but I factor in the price of the base
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#6
07-12-2010, 10:29 PM
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Good idea you have here. But who is really going to buy from someone without seeing pics of their tank and reading some of their posts. After being on this site for a while a person begins to figure out who's a dipchit and who is'nt even though we really are complete strangers to each other. Not trying to put a downer on your plan or start a debate but it would be to hard to police such a thing. It's up to the buyer to do their own asking of the product before they purchase it. Buyer beware. ie: you going to buy a frag from lets say Kein or Whatcaneyedo or some junior member that has no pics or reputation. Word of mouth is probably the best thing.
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#8
07-13-2010, 05:29 PM
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While I applaud what you're trying to do here (really !), I just can't see this flying. Point-by-point remarks:
1. Good idea but useless unless there is some way of expressing the lighting conditions in a standardized manner and in which people can understand. 2. The size is the size. If someone wants to offer something rare and people are willing to buy it, then that constitutes a market. It might make more sense to simply say that an accurate size measurement should be posted. 3. Price is what the market will bear. Period. Ridiculously priced frags won't sell. If they DO sell, then the price wasn't ridiculous to someone. 4. Sell should declare if they have been dipped. I prefer to dip my own stuff. Dipping prior to shipment would be a bad idea and causes issues of stress/survivability. 5-9 I more or less agree with. For what it's worth, I might consider refering to this guide as more of a 'code of ethics' since that's really what it's all about. <dismount soapbox> Quote:
__________________
-Mark 29 Gal Bowfront w/24" LED Lights. DIY HOB Sump (5.4 Gal) MP40. Orange Spotted Watchman Goby, 2 Clownfish and a few hermits.
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#9
07-13-2010, 08:24 PM
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You could have just summed this up in one phrase..."common sense".
Why do private sellers get the short end of the stick so to speak when it comes to selling frags? Especially (unless I am reading this wrong) how you mention frags cannot be over a certain price. Ridiculous. IMO frags from a private seller should be worth more than a stores in most cases. I have never understood how livestock depreciates so much in our aquariums. Just let people sell and make deals among themselves. If these things are important to you then ask them of the seller. If they are important to the seller then he can implement them.
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#10
07-13-2010, 08:32 PM
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Would you pay 50.00 for a 1" frag? if you are I have plenty to sell to you
I think hobbyist should get a price break amongst their peers. We know what we've sunk into this hobby/addiction. Sharing the wealth is not a bad thing. The difference is that a store has to make a profit to survive. A hobbyist makes money to cover supplies or utilities if they are lucky. The commercial guys sell good product and I support them when I can Last edited by fencer; 07-13-2010 at 08:35 PM.
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