SPS Tank O Death

michika · #1 04-21-2008, 03:23 AM

I need some help, this is my last ditch effort at not shutting down my 28g long nano once I get my 180g up and running.

This is my tank journal for the 28g nano.

The problem is that my tank kills SPS, and only SPS. I can keep all types of livestock with no problem, clams, fish, inverts, zoas, LPS. When I put SPS into the tank its usually fine for about a week, good polyp extension, good color, then after that I start to see no polyp extension, then bleaching, and finally RTN (which usually happens over night).

I have a theory that the cause is the glass. I used appropriate silicone, my water parameters have always been in line, and I'm not seeing anything picking at the SPS. Everything else in the tank seems normal; I have coraline growth, macro growth, etc. I use RO/DI, and have no problem algae. In short everything seems normal, but something is out enough to kill SPS and only SPS within 2-3 weeks of being placed in the tank.

Some quick details about the tank;
-Been running since Nov 07, upon my move from my previous cube ALL my SPS died, along with the bulk of my clam collection. All inverts, fish, lps, and zoas all survived.
- Parameters are as of April 15; SG 1.025, Ca 440, dKH 10, Mg 1300, Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, and Phosphates are 0.
- No cleaners around the tank.
- Regular weekly maintenance schedule
- Running 175w MH in Luminarc reflector
- Tank is 12"x33"x18", and water height is actually 11"

I've posted this on RC and got a pile of suggestions, I explored most of them, but nothing came of any of them.

bv_reefer · #2 04-21-2008, 03:32 AM

i'm definitely tagging along this thread my blue tip acro frags were all doing great this morning ,when i came back this evening one was ghost white, totally RTN'd before my eyes, and i'm thoroughly stumped

my clam and all my other inverts & corals are doing great-

Mik_101 · #3 04-21-2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bv_reefer

i'm definitely tagging along this thread my blue tip acro frags were all doing great this morning ,when i came back this evening one was ghost white, totally RTN'd before my eyes, and i'm thoroughly stumped

my clam and all my other inverts & corals are doing great-

Wow thats must suck. Man those were also nice frags.

Delphinus · #4 04-21-2008, 04:05 AM

Hi, I just posted in your journal thread but I'll post again in here for the sake of completeness.

I suspect something pathological in nature - either a form of boring algae (are the skeletons greenish after an RTN event? If so, it's a kind of single-cell algae that bores into the skeleton), bacteria, virus, or fungus.

If that is the case then essentially there is no solution short of running a fallow tank and hoping it eventually dies back to the point it can't come back.

It thus may be easier, emotionally, financially, practically ... to simply shut the tank down and start over. (I probably should have done so a long time ago myself, but pressed on due to having fish and other livestock that continued to do well.)

I know it's not much of a suggestion, sorry. It's just that there's really nothing obvious regarding the science that we can do (ie., check parameters, look for obvious stressors, etc.).

Jason McK · #5 04-21-2008, 04:07 AM

Catherine,
Do you have softies in the tank?
Also what kind of SPS are you loosing. Have you tried Digitata or Montipora?
Are the corals STNing ot RTNing or just never showing signs of polyp extension and then just bleaching out.
could you give us your water perameters.

J

michika · #6 04-21-2008, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason McK

Catherine,
Do you have softies in the tank?
Also what kind of SPS are you loosing. Have you tried Digitata or Montipora?
Are the corals STNing ot RTNing or just never showing signs of polyp extension and then just bleaching out.
could you give us your water perameters.

J

I have zoas, and no more softies. I had xenia, but gave it away. Parameters are above in the original post. Corals all start with polyp extension for about a week, and around the end of the first or second week the polyps no longer extend. Then over the course of a few days I will start to see bleached tips, and finally one evening/night they will just RTN. The RTN always happens after the MH is off. I've seen the RTN happen both with the lights in the tank completely off and with just the actinics on.

SPS that I've tried after the crash; montipora digitata, birdsnest, cap coral, cactus coral, and a few general acros.

marie · #7 04-21-2008, 04:15 AM

Hi Catherine, did i read in your other thread that you are running a calcium reactor? I'm beginning to believe that some of my acro problems are tied into a new co2 bottle.
Here is a brief (

) description of my problems

In Nov Anthony had found a good deal on a 35lb co2 bottle for me, he had it filled and brought it up (just to start the time line).
The second week of dec I treated the whole tank for red bugs and did the second treatment a week later. 2 days after the second treatment I had an outbreak of cyano and dinoflagellates. One acro RTN'd, some turned brown, one bleached and couple had issues were the tips fell apart, skeleton and all. I blamed the inteceptor treatment and started doing massive water changes.Because growth had slowed or stopped in most corals, my alk climbed a bit too high so I stopped the reactor to let levels fall back down again.
Everything started improving and I assumed it was because of all the water changes I've done. I started the reactor back up, things went down hill, growth stopped, reactor was shut off. This pattern repeated itself over and over for the next three months (I'm a slow learner).
As it stands now, for the last 2 weeks I have been using kalk and 2 part to maintain levels. I still have one millie that is stning but the other has finally started puting out the long polyp tentacles and looking kind of millie like. I have 2 corals that appear to have lost all polyps (just holes were they used to be) but the tips look healthier. The only other sps corals that were affected were 2 of my large pocillipora colonies. Every thing else was unaffected.
I have reached the point now where my cal/alk demand is climbing and I would of started the cal reactor up. It will be interesting to see how everything goes without it
I have no proof that it was the co2 but I think I will stick with dosing 2 part for now it's safer.

michika · #8 04-21-2008, 04:28 AM

I'm running the same CO2 bottle that I was running on my 24g cube since I started it. So your CO2 bottle before your dud bottle didn't cause any problems?

Rock is all years old, came from reputable sources, LFSs or came dried. The bulk of it is stuff I've had since 2004.

The glass is the only thing I can't account for. Everything in the tank aside from the display tank glass was previously in use in one of my other systems. None of my other systems had any problems with SPS. I only know part of the display tank's history, I was told it was used as a macro grow out tank and that no chemicals were used in it. Although for all I know the glass was previously used for another purpose and could have been exposed to something that may have leeched into the glass.

fkshiu · #9 04-21-2008, 04:47 AM

Have you tried running carbon? Could be alleopathy from the LPS/softies in a small tank.

As far as Marie's possible issues with CO2, the two possible issues that could be caused are a lowering of pH and then ORP as more CO2 enters your system. Having a pH controller and solenoid is the preventative measure. Running a kalk reactor or an extra effluent chamber to counteract excess CO2 is the reactive measure if problems persist.

Myka · #10 04-21-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michika

Rock is all years old, came from reputable sources, LFSs or came dried. The bulk of it is stuff I've had since 2004.

The glass is the only thing I can't account for. Everything in the tank aside from the display tank glass was previously in use in one of my other systems. None of my other systems had any problems with SPS. I only know part of the display tank's history, I was told it was used as a macro grow out tank and that no chemicals were used in it. Although for all I know the glass was previously used for another purpose and could have been exposed to something that may have leeched into the glass.

So this rock was previously run in another system of yours I assume...? If it were my tank, especially considering it's only 24g, I would pull the rock (and sand), and replace it with different stuff from one of your other systems possibly. At this point, I think the biggest suspect would be the rock. Even if it was run in a different system before... I know you had some GHA issues in the tank previously.

I'd have a really hard time believing it was the glass. Possible...but unlikely for sure.

I would also suspect the silicone before the glass.

However, I doubt it's the glass or the silicone, as I believe if that were the issue it would affect all the corals. Honestly, I doubt it's the rock either (although that's an easy try). If I ignored all the information I know about your tank (I skimmed your journal), and was just told, "hey my softies and LPS are fine, but my SPS are dying, what's wrong?" I would immediately suspect parasites, flow, and micronutrients first. Do you know what red bugs, and AEFW look like? Have you seen them in person before? Can you test for Strontium, Iron, and Silicates? Can you take a short video clip of your tank that will show the polyps waving in the flow?