Sad news: baby elephant has died.

[Delphinus]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...773558-cp.html

I guess she had too much of an uphill battle to fight.

That's too bad, the zookeepers and vets who put in so much to care for her, must be very saddened.

[albert_dao]

That is awful.

Critics say this is proof elephants shouldn't be bred in captivty.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. That's equivalent to saying a teenage mother should be barred from having children later in her life because of an irresponsible act made during years when better judgement was lacking.

The fact is that, as stated, it is normal for first time elephant mothers to abandon their offspring in the wild. Looking at that, you can easily make the leap of logic and say, "Hey! this would have happened anyway!!"

Animal rights is one thing, animal liberation is another.

That aggravates me to no end.

[Beverly]

I've been following the story. Very sad to hear the little one didn't make it

In the wild, elephants live in matriarchal societies where young female elephants are able to "learn" how to care for their young by watching the older females of their group rear their young. Yes, occasionally, first time wild elephant mothers abandon their babies, for much the same reason the captive mother abandoned her baby - it was sick. Unfortunately, there is no elephant medicare to help in these situations.

The vets and other zoo staff did their best to care for the sick infant, but in the end it was not enough. Elephants are highly social and live in complex societies. I have a whole bunch of if only's going around in my head, but, ultimately, infant mortality is an utterly sad fact of life

[Canadian Man]

I heard that on the radio this morning. Very sad

It was a cute little elephant!

[AJ_77]

Originally Posted by Beverly

...infant mortality is an utterly sad fact of life

Isn't this an elephant we're talking about? Are newborn elephants referred to as "infants?"

[Beverly]

Originally Posted by AJ_77

Isn't this an elephant we're talking about? Are newborn elephants referred to as "infants?"

Hmm, yes, infants generally refer to human babies. Elephants are very intelligent and live in highly evolved societies, so I have great reverence for them. Please, don't get me started on elephants in most zoos, elephants in cities in South Asia, speciesism in reference to calling a baby elephant an infant......

[AJ_77]

Hmm, please don't accuse me of speciesism. The same quality that allows me to recognize what exceptional and wondrous beasts elephants are tells me that we are indeed a species far apart, and that I may ascertain by this and other "higher faculties" that your life is of infinitely greater consequence than that of an elephant.

I agree that this baby elephant's death is very sad, and would greatly prefer that it had survived. That would be a very cool thing to take my kids to see, as part of their ongoing instruction in the appreciation of nature.

[Beverly]

Originally Posted by AJ_77

The same quality that allows me to recognize what exceptional and wondrous beasts elephants are tells me that we are indeed a species far apart, and that I may ascertain by this and other "higher faculties" that your life is of infinitely greater consequence than that of an elephant.

Yes, my life is more important to me than an elephant's life is to me. But to an elephant, I'm sure it's own life is more important to itself than my life is to it. The need to survive and thrive has got to be one of the most basic of all needs in any living entity.

As for the "higher faculties" issue, human animals do not have a way to truly measure the higher faculties of other animals. We only assume that because other animals do not have written language (or spoken/unspoken language that we can understand), do not build monumental cities (with the exception of some species of insects), are not capable of Googling, that they do not have some form of thought or have souls. But in the heaven I go to after this life, there will be mammals, fish, birds, insects, amphibians, et al, and I welcome a heaven populated as such.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Beverly

But to an elephant, I'm sure it's own life is more important to itself than my life is to it.

you really think an animal has the rational and state of mine to know its importance in the world? isn't that what separates humans from animals?

sure they have a instinct to survive but it is an instinct, not a thought process, and thats it. Lets not project human traits and value onto animals other wise we will have to say our fish would be happier if we killed the one thats bugging it at night

Steve

[Quinn]

The idea that anything shouldn't be bred in captivity is utterly absurd.

There's no doubt elephants are "highly" evolved. Of course whether being "highly" evolved is such a good thing is anyone's guess. Evolution is about long-term survival (read: eons), and both elephants and humans are unlikely to be around for any significant period of time, compared to, say, many species of protozoa. The more conventional scale we use to measure organismic "success", intelligence, dominance, is one that is of little relevance in the grand scheme of things.

I'm taking an animal behaviour class right now, and it's possibly been the most interesting class that I've taken in my life, along with a few criminology courses. I am tempted to switch my focus to what's known as comparative psychology to spend my career watching monkeys in Africa. This is a little cliché, but it's helped me realize how "small" I am.