Anyone run a sump on a freshwater tank?

[Delphinus]

Just wondering. Anyone run a sump on a freshwater tank? I almost want to try this, if for no other reason than I want to put a float valve for topoff on my freshwater tank.

How much flow have you ever seen on a freshwater tank? My gravel is a detritus trap and this is another thing I wish I could do something about ... I'm thinking, more flow perhaps, keep the goo and poo from settling on the gravel and get caught by the filters instead...

[DJ88]

Tony,

I have seen a discus tank that had a wet dry that was the width of a bioball that was the length of the tank. Ran down into a sump. Does that help?

Kept the pH right where he wanted it for breeding.

[ron101]

I've often thought about setting up a reverse daylight filter in a sump with some fast growing weeds/plants/algae and see how it manages the nitrate levels. However given that my 90gal reef is currently sumpless I can't see trying it out anytime soon.

As far as cranking up the flow, I think you have to factor in the type of fish you have. Some may be ok some may not. I would think that the water velocity required to keep detritus in suspension would be problematic. Perhaps a reverse-flow undergravel setup might be effective though never run one myself.

Personally I think worrying about detritus accumulation in the substrate is a bit overrated. Eventually it all gets mineralized; I just keep up the water changes to deal with nitrates.

My fresh tank is only a 33gal though, if I still ran my 90 that way I would probably be looking for maintenance reductions too.

[StirCrazy]

you still want to shoot for a 5X to 10X / hour changeover rate in a fresh water tank, the things you will want to vary acording to the type of fish is the force of the water flow. this can be done by having several larger pipes comming offf your return for s slow gental flow instead of one that will act like a nozzle. I have a 10X turnover in mine but about 1/2 the tank has a very low flow as I have some fish that like that.

do you have a lot of plants in your tank? If so that stuff in the gravel is good for them, I use MTS (Malaysian Trumpet snails) to help controle this along with Kalua Loaches. The MTS stay under the gravle all day and at night come out and clean everything.

IMHO undergravel filters should be taken out and throwen in the garbage, they work good for about a year and then you have to rip the tank down to clean them of deal with problems from hell when the get gunked up. I have redone several tanks now as I used to use UGF and each tank as soon as I removed the UGF and put a power filter or a canister filter on it all the problems went away. another big problem for UGF's is if you have plants. The roots tend to get into them and plug them up rendering them useless way faster than they do it on there own.

Instead of a UGF I would recomend to anyone starting up a fresh water tank to go with 4" of a 1 to 2mm sized gravel and if your fish will alow it.. a few bunches of some fast growing stem plants like Hygrofillia (not sure of the spelling) my tank is at the point that I have c go away for 4 or 5 months and if all the wife does is feed the fish all my levels will still be perfect when I get home, (ie. 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite, 0 amonia ) although normal I do a 1/3 of a tank waterchange every month. Ieven had my kid dump a whole jar of food in the tank and the plants and snails took care of everything .. I didn't even get a reading out of it.

I have been toying with the idea of adding a sump to my tank, (or making my new SW tank into a planted tank). I have seen several taks with sumps and refuges in the fresh water side of the hobby, mostly people use sumps to hide equipment, increase water volume for stability, and to have a place to add water easy.. sounds familier eh [img]smile.gif[/img] as for the refuges mostly I have seen them in tanks whare people want to keep a critter that is benificial but will eat the fish and/or the plants in the main tank, or as a protected grow out area for food.

hope this helps a bit..

Steve

[Delphinus]

Thanks for the replies. So far, mostly echoing my own thoughts.

How do MTS fare against clown loaches? My clowns make pretty quick work of any snail I put in the tank. I have found a few that seem to hold their own for a while, there is this sort of "bumblebee snail" or something like that but a) they next to useless as far as detritivores go, they're only pretty to look at, b) they appear to be only semi-aqautic, hanging out at just above the water's edge most of the time and c) I eventually find their empty shells on the bottom next to a smug looking loach...

Also ... whenever I've gone looking for them my LFS had never heard of them when I asked about them. I once found snails in their tank that coul dbe MTS, but they refused to give me any because of that particular snail's (do't know if it was MTS or not) propensity to become a nasty plaque of a zillion snails in a tank. I told them, likely not a problem with my escargot-loving-loaches, but still, they didn't want me to have any. Oh well.

What are people using for live food in sump/refuge grow-outs? Most freshwater live foods I thought were kinda gross, like blackworms or mosquito larva. (Hmmm, mozzie larva inside my house, now THERE's a great idea... ;) )

[ron101]

Steve,

Does your 'freshwater DSB' function similar to those for saltwater?

Do you get nitrogen bubble production and the black/charcoal coloured patches?

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by Ron101:
Steve,

Does your 'freshwater DSB' function similar to those for saltwater?

Do you get nitrogen bubble production and the black/charcoal coloured patches?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was getting this in my smaller sand substrate tanks, in them I was using a 0.5 to 1mm pool filter sand and yes I think it did have some of the properties of a DSB (don't quote me on that though :D sence I added the MTS they keep the sand bed pretty much stired up so I don't get any pockets but I still do not have any levels of nitrate. this is also due to the plants but I do not have as many in the 20 gal as I do in the 37 gal.

delphinus, they can becom a plague but not a bad one, I find if you look in my 37 gal durning the day you might see a few. at night there are hundreds [img]smile.gif[/img] they stay under the surface of the sand for the day so you realy don't know how many you have when the lights are on. if you click on the MTS name on my web page it will take you to a good pic of them. as for clown loaches.. hmm I am not sure.. they might make it just for the fact that they stay under the gravel a lot.. but then again getting them established might be hard. they are live bearers and multiplay quite quickly. and as for any snail it will only becom a plague if you let it (ie. over feed your tank and stuff) but as soon as you get stuff under controle the 3's will settle out to what your tank can support.

Steve

[rossb]

Delphinus I too considered this but instead opted for a large biological filter. I only have goldfish and a turtle and they are mess critters. I got a food grade 60 gallon barrel and pump 480 GPH through it. It keeps the water quality excellent (O nitrites/amonium). I use the water to keep house plants alive and the nitrates makes the plants grow very well.

Have you ever tried a protein skimmer on freshwater??

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by rossb

Have you ever tried a protein skimmer on freshwater??

they won't work, the surface tension of salt water is different than fresh causing the bubbles to be produced.. in fresh you just get large short lived bubbles.. that is why when you use a becket on a pond it doesen't builb s foam layer ontop of the water.

Steve

[rossb]

Thanks, I have been testing out my new skimmer in freash water and was starting to have doubts.