Ick, hyposalinity, and other mistakes...

[Scuba Diver Gal]

Hello,

Needing some advice. This is my son's tank but I help him with it as we are both new to the hobby. We have a 29 gallon biocube that has been running for approximately 2 months. Here is what has happened:

- had 2 tank bred young clowns in the tank
- added one purple fire fish and some corals (GSP, torch, etc.)
- things in the tank were going along swimmingly
- this week went to LFS and my son was assured that he could put a Dwarf Angel in the tank also recommended a yellow tang. I didn't think it was right but in the end the person at the store seemed very confident the dwarf angel would be fine
- put the Flame Angel fish into the tank (didn't quarantine, I know, I know…we now have a quarantine tank running) (being new it's overwhelming enough to get a simple AIO tank let alone make a quarantine tank…
- within 12 hours the Dwarf Angel had white spots…one that went away, then another one showed up a few hours later, then gone completely, then a few more, etc, etc.
- 2 days later we removed the Dwarf Angel from the tank and took it back to the LFS - we were told it was not ick from the Dwarf Angel etc, etc.
- I don't really care at this point what caused the ick, all we cared about was he wouldn't destroy the fish and would treat it and now WHAT DO WE DO???

HERE IS WHAT ADVICE WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN FROM A VERY RELIABLE SOURCE (only doubting because some people have told us other things that scare us from jumping into what the reliable source tells us to do).
- quarantine the 2 clowns and purple fire fish (all 3 of these fish look PERFECTLY healthy right now and are acting completely normal) in hypo salinit for 8 weeks
- let tank sit fallow for 8 weeks to let all ick in the tank die
- slowly return the 3 fish to regular salinity and then return them to the main tank

HERE IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD BY OTHER SOMEWHAT RELIABLE SOURCES:
- purple fire fish will die within 2 days in hypo salinity
- there is ick in every tank even if we let it sit fallow and it needs to sit for at least 12 weeks and still can have ick
- don't do anything if the 3 fish aren't showing any signs of ick
- putting them in quarantine will stress them too much and cause them to become sick too
- don't worry about the ick at all, we may never see signs of it again now that the Dwarf Angel is gone
- flush all 3 fish and give up on raising fish at all
- don't medicate with copper etc because we are beginners

HERE ARE OUR CONSIDERATIONS:
- seriously considering to upgrade to a new bigger tank in the next 6 months and would like to use existing live rock, fish, and corals (won't keep sand)
- only want to add 1-2 more fish to the tank anyways
- are we CRAZY for even considering getting a LARGER TANK???!!!??? especially after all these trips to and from the fish stores this week???
- we really don't want to harm these fish and make this as easy on them as possible
- don't want to move ick into our next tank

Sorry for the long post but we are just lost. We trust our first person but all these other bits of advice have totally scared us, so we have really done nothing…

Do any of you have experience with this and considering what we are planning for future upgrade, what would you do?

Please, we were already shamed yesterday by someone over the Dwarf Angel, only constructive advice would be appreciated...

[Reef Pilot]

Maybe this will help.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ths-facts.html

I am also a big believer in the hypo routine and use it for my new fish with great results. Here is a good article on some of the benefits and why it works so well for new fish.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish

[jorjef]

Get rid of the flame angle if you can.

Sit back and watch the tank.

No ick, no harm. Ick shows up treat with ick meds. If you loose fish so be it. Learn from the mistake and move forward.

To deploy into a full on assault to save the fish is more headache than it's worth. may sound harsh and non fishy/animal loving but what can I say.

If all fish die you can decide to fallow the tank then.

[Scuba Diver Gal]

Flame Angel is already back at the fish store…waiting for our bigger tank

[jorjef]

There you're done.

[Duncans n' Dendros]

Im not an expert but I know hypo works. Should you worry about those fish? Doubt it. Should you get a bigger tank? Hell ya. Just run both, one with possibly having ick and the other a rockin reef tank because your learning from this and quarantining the fish and dipping your corals. Having fun is probably the most important. I learnt this after killing hundreds of dollar worth of coral and the odd fish dead. Dont stress, things happen in this hobby. It sucks that it sometimes happens too fast. Oh and never trust big box LFS employees. I had one tell me that a unicorn tang was a smaller tang. Its a small fish compared to a whale maybe but no small tang.

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by jorjef

Sit back and watch the tank.

+ a million. Ich is one of those things, if it's not an active, out of control infection that is killing your fish, the cure can be worse than the disease. If you want your tank to be 'ich free', yes, you'll have to go through some long involved and laborious process of quarantine, treatment, and fallowing, but to what end? Are you losing fish? do they look sick? Any of the 'known' cures for ich present real and tangible risks to the life of those fish, and in the case of copper and (for some species) hypo, greater than the risk of doing nothing.

If you ever want to keep one of the known 'ich magnet' species down the road in a bigger tank, it might be worth investing the time now to try and get it out while the tank is small and you hardly have any fish. When you upgrade would be a perfect time actually, but if you're talking about just this tank and just these fish, I don't think it would be worth the effort or the risk, unless of course your existing fish start to exhibit symptoms.

Also, the next time an LFS recommends any kind of tang for a 29 gallon tank, you should consider that as a cue to take every other word that comes out of their mouths with one very large grain of salt. A yellow tang's adult size in an aquarium can easily reach 8 inches if properly cared for, which would a) look ridiculous in a 20 inch wide tank and b) be incredibly cruel. LiveAquaria suggests nothing less than 100 gallons for a yellow tang, and I find their tank size requirements can often be pretty liberal.

[Aquattro]

IMO, this can be your reliable "go to " answer for this. Especially the part about the Tang. Find a new fish store
I went through a lot of time, trouble, expense, fallowness, etc, to get a disease free tank. My Achilles Tang has some ih spots last month -lol Just can't win. I just live with it now.
That being said, I would QT any NEW fish coming in to avoid introducing aything worse than ich.

Originally Posted by asylumdown

+ a million. Ich is one of those things, if it's not an active, out of control infection that is killing your fish, the cure can be worse than the disease. If you want your tank to be 'ich free', yes, you'll have to go through some long involved and laborious process of quarantine, treatment, and fallowing, but to what end? Are you losing fish? do they look sick? Any of the 'known' cures for ich present real and tangible risks to the life of those fish, and in the case of copper and (for some species) hypo, greater than the risk of doing nothing.

If you ever want to keep one of the known 'ich magnet' species down the road in a bigger tank, it might be worth investing the time now to try and get it out while the tank is small and you hardly have any fish. When you upgrade would be a perfect time actually, but if you're talking about just this tank and just these fish, I don't think it would be worth the effort or the risk, unless of course your existing fish start to exhibit symptoms.

Also, the next time an LFS recommends any kind of tang for a 29 gallon tank, you should consider that as a cue to take every other word that comes out of their mouths with one very large grain of salt. A yellow tang's adult size in an aquarium can easily reach 8 inches if properly cared for, which would a) look ridiculous in a 20 inch wide tank and b) be incredibly cruel. LiveAquaria suggests nothing less than 100 gallons for a yellow tang, and I find their tank size requirements can often be pretty liberal.

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

That being said, I would QT any NEW fish coming in to avoid introducing aything worse than ich.

Amen to that. Even another strain of ich would be worthwhile keeping out.

[bulletsworld]

What the hobby and stores will never tell you is that fish disease is a BIG part of keeping fish. It's also the most stressful for people and main reasons people leave the hobby. You can lose hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on the hobby, with just fish a lone. It can be dishearting at times, stressful and expensive.

After treating fish diseases for years in this hobby. Ich is the least of your worries. Most tanks if not all have had or still have ich in their tanks. Ich can be managed by good water quality, water temp, garlic/ginger treatments, light limits, and non stressful tankmates. Providing the fish are all healthy also. Keep in mind that even if the fish is healthy, the scale-less fish (boxfish, puffers, lionfish, etc, just to name a few) will be the first fish to show parasites & can't manage it on their own.

A good UV sterilizer is good to have also. If you want to be in the hobby long, you must always quarantine everything (fish, inverts, rock, any new additions). TIP: got a ich breakout, take away the light. Ich swims towards the light. Black out the tank.

Although its true, the treatment can be worse than the disease. So, if there is no sign of stress, lack of apetite, scratching, flashing to the fish, I would see if it can be managed by above mentioned stategies.

If you decide to treat there are other other options to treat fish besides copper & hyposalinity. But either those options or other require extensive monitoring, water treatments, and a lot of your time.

Btw... the tang police will always tell you that you shouldn't have a tang in anything less than a 100 gallon. However, you can have a very small tang (yellow or regal) in a small tank. I see dime sized regals that wouldn't be able to handle lots of current & easily get stuck to powerheads. Especially if you know you are upgrading later to a bigger tank. If not, you can always re-sell or trade to someone with a bigger tank.

Hope this helps.