LED Patents - Action Needed!

[Ron99]

Well I don't know if everybody saw the post at reefbuilders:

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/01/30/s...-broad-patent/

Basically, a company called Orbitec (which is developing LED based grow lights for space and other applications) managed to get a patent for the use of LED aquarium lights with controllers to vary intensity and timing which means anybody wanting to make a fixture with built in controller has to pay them a licensing fee. While it is the subject of debate, many of us feel this patent should never have been issued for various reasons. And to make matters worse, Orbitec is now filing for a continuation of that patent that will cover any LED lighting for aquariums whether they have a controller or not which I think is really overreaching and should be fought.

So I thought I would start a thread here where we can discuss it and also to urge people to go over to reefbuilders and support them in this fight. Especially if you know of any posts on web boards or publications that discuss LED lighting for reef tanks prior to late 2003. They need to gather as much prior art together to show that the idea was already in the public arena before Orbitec filed for their patent.

[ScubaSteve]

I can see how they were able to get a patent for an LED unit with a controller but they haven't got a hope in hell of being able to patent all LED units for aquariums as, at least to my knowledge, it is prior public knowledge. If they applied for a patent of this back then, this patent would have likely been granted by now.

A few threads that come to mind are:
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...owtopic=200335
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...owtopic=138608

Contact the author of the first thread. He is an LED aquarium lighting guru and could give you a plethora of info.

[StirCrazy]

ok here are some threads for ya to look through

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...uaria.marine.*

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...highlight=LEDs

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...highlight=LEDs

heres a good one to
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...03/feature.htm

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...highlight=LEDs

anyways after these we are getting into 2004

Steve

[Ron99]

Hi Steve,

The patent with a controller is marginal to me as I think it is an obvious extension of what has been done with other types of lighting for a long time is therefore obvious and not patentable. As for the new continuation they have filed, who knows what the patent office will allow if others don't bring stuff to their attention.

I am aware of the stuff on nano-reef and I think Evilc66 over there is involved in this already. I was thinking more from the perspective of anything Canadian that could help them that they aren't already aware of. The US guys probably don't spend much time on Canadian boards The one you linked to from Canreef is probably to late as it would have to be before Orbitec filed their PPA in December of 2003.

[Ron99]

Sorry, meant the last Canreef link you posted. The others might be helpful to them.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Ron99

Sorry, meant the last Canreef link you posted. The others might be helpful to them.

ya I thought that was a little late, but threw it in anyways.. if you need the pictures that are missing I could probably find the ones of the lighting over my tank. but it could take a while to find them LOL

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

Along for the ride

[sphelps]

I'm a little confused and don't see a problem from my point of view

1) You don't have to worry about any patent infringement if you're just building your own fixture, only if you're manufacturing and selling it. DIY'ers are safe.

2) There are a number of problems with LED systems, they are too expensive, they are more complicated than the average system, and they are yet to be proven as a sustainable and effective alternative to existing products for the average reef keeper. No matter how you look at it LEDs are low power which makes them less practical for this industry. I see great potential in residential lighting if the cost can be reduced but not so much in our hobby, well except for moon lights.

3) LED is just a new idea and popular as a result of marketing more than anything else. In five years something else will be out that's far better, even as we speak there are better things on the horizon.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by sphelps

I'm a little confused and don't see a problem from my point of view

1) You don't have to worry about any patent infringement if you're just building your own fixture, only if you're manufacturing and selling it. DIY'ers are safe.

2) There are a number of problems with LED systems, they are too expensive, they are more complicated than the average system, and they are yet to be proven as a sustainable and effective alternative to existing products for the average reef keeper. No matter how you look at it LEDs are low power which makes them less practical for this industry. I see great potential in residential lighting if the cost can be reduced but not so much in our hobby, well except for moon lights.

3) LED is just a new idea and popular as a result of marketing more than anything else. In five years something else will be out that's far better, even as we speak there are better things on the horizon.

actualy if you build your own they can take you to cort for infringment. usaly they don't as it costs to much for what they would get from an individual. now if they had proof of 100 people that built there own that might be worth it.

LEDs have actualy been testing out at higher PAR levels than MH when set up right, with none of the heat issues or buble replacment issues.

and finaly, they are not new.. been on systems in DIY sence 2001-2002, been avilable comercialy since 2004. so about as new as T5s.

Steve

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

actualy if you build your own they can take you to cort for infringment. usaly they don't as it costs to much for what they would get from an individual. now if they had proof of 100 people that built there own that might be worth it.

LEDs have actualy been testing out at higher PAR levels than MH when set up right, with none of the heat issues or buble replacment issues.

and finaly, they are not new.. been on systems in DIY sence 2001-2002, been avilable comercialy since 2004. so about as new as T5s.

Steve

No company with half a brain would sue a guy who built a similar product for personal use in his garage. If you're that worried maybe don't be so quick to show off your new light online with detailed plans on how you built it. But either way it will never happen, you're no threat to the company and they have better things to do with their money. The fact that they have such a patent should tell you they're not that stupid.

If they've been around for so long (6 years isn't that long BTW) then show me a pictures of a tank that has used LEDs for a good period of time for mostly SPS corals. If such a light fixture can't be used to support SPS corals it's about as useful as PCs and NOs. From what I know LEDs don't have the intensity to penetrate water deep enough, they have the par at the surface but that's it. This is why we need high output lighting and why you'll have a difficult time finding someone with success using LEDs alone.