[FitoPharmer]

Originally Posted by Ron99

I'm pretty much at the point that I really don't see the value of contributing here any longer.

NO Ron, we need you! i was really hoping as an actual scientist you would have something scientific for me that proves that this swine flu vaccine is safer the the last one....

Originally Posted by pinhead

I also finding this discussion becoming tedious so I think this will be my last contribution.

why? all i have been asking for is some real facts, or for someone to say "it's this study, done by this place that proves its safer then the last swine flu vaccine just go look it up".

Originally Posted by pinhead

It is truly unfortunate that there are people who continue to hold views in light of evidence to the contrary.

what evidence?

Originally Posted by pinhead

A few last comments.

but not facts? just comments?

Originally Posted by pinhead

This how you do journal research in science. There is a tool called MEDLINE (Medical Literature Analysis and Retrieval System) which allows you to do a search in about 5000 scientific journals.

Searching H1N1 vaccine, I get 1217 journal references for h1n1 vaccine - 46 for the month of October alone. You would then have to go to a university biomedical library to read these articles as they are subscription based and very few are available for free.

Other searches yield about 3500 references for H1N1 and 3000 for H5N1 on which the Arepanrix vaccine was based upon.

that's nice...... have you done this? so there is 3500 references for h1n1 did you read any of them?

Originally Posted by pinhead

This are the risks directly from the vaccines' patient information sheet.

Very common (may occur with more than 1 in 10 doses): Pain at the injection site, Headache, Fatigue, Redness or swelling at the injection site, Shivering, Sweating, Aching muscles, joint pain
Common (may occur with up to 1 in 10 doses):Reactions at the injection site such as bruising, itching and warmth, Fever, Swollen lympth nodes, Feeling sick, diarrhea
Uncommon (may occur with up to 1 in 100 doses): Dizziness, Generally feeling unwell, Unusual weakness, ....

you know what else the "PRODUCT INFORMATION LEAFLET" says:
"Among Arepanrix™ H5N1 or Pandemix™ H5N1 recipients, five (<0.1%) had fatal serious adverse events, including two instances of ovarian carcinoma, a metastatic malignancy of unspecified type, a myocardial infarction, and exacerbation of diabetes mellitus and hepatic cirrhosis. Among placebo recipients, three (0.1%) sustained fatal serious adverse events one instance of brain neoplasm, one instance of cardiomegaly secondary to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and one instance of bilateral pneumonia. During six months of follow-up for the entire group of 9,873 Arepanrix™ or Pandemrix™ H5N1 recipients, 7 (<0.1%) reported an Adverse Event of Special Interest as defined by EMEA. Four subjects reported facial palsy (Bell’s palsy) at intervals ranging from hours to 135 days after vaccine exposure; all of these resolved spontaneously and completely. A 45 year old male had an anaphylactic reaction to food six (6) days after first exposure to H5N/AS03 vaccine, and a 25 year old white female had a single episode of convulsions 35 days after the second dose. None of these Adverse Events of Special Interest was assessed as treatment-related by the investigators. One 48 year old female had “neuritis” with onset almost immediately after injection. Symptoms were localized entirely to the injected arm and compatible with a perineural injection injury; the problem resolved spontaneously. Eleven of 9,873 (0.1%) Arepanrix™ or Pandemrix™ H5N1 recipients were reported to have potential immune-mediated diseases. Diagnoses included two instances of psoriasis, four instances of polymyalgia rheumatica (all in 59 to 84 year-old women, three of whom had symptoms antedating vaccine), and one instance each of Grave’s disease, uveitis, scleroderma, isolated IVth nerve palsy, and erythema nodosum. None of these was assessed as a serious adverse event or as related to the investigational vaccine by the investigators."

"Pain at the injection site was the most commonly reported solicited local symptom in both Arepanrix™ H5N1 and placebo groups and was reported at a 6-fold higher frequency (i.e. following 73% of doses) in the Arepanrix™ H5N1 group. Despite the high incidence of injection site pain, the incidence of severe pain was low, with reports occurring after 2.7% of Arepanrix™ H5N1 doses and 0.4% of placebo doses. Overall, severe solicited or unsolicited adverse events of any type occurred in the 7 days after 6.4 to 7.0% of Arepanrix™ H5N1 doses and 3.6% of placebo doses. The most common severe solicited adverse event was local injection site pain; all severe general solicited adverse events occurred after <2% of doses.
Other/Additional adverse reactions reported are listed according to the following frequency classification:
Very common (≥1/10)
Common (≥1/100 to <1/10)
Uncommon (≥1/1,000 to <1/100)
Rare (≥1/10,000 to <1/1,000)
Very rare (<1/10,000)
Not known (cannot be estimated from the available data)
Blood and lymphatic system disorders
Common: lymphadenopathy
Psychiatric disorders
Uncommon: insomnia
Nervous system disorders
Uncommon: dizziness, paraesthesia
Ear and labyrinth disorders
Uncommon: vertigo
Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders
Uncommon: dyspnoea
Gastrointestinal disorders
Common: nausea, diarrhoea
Uncommon: abdominal pain, vomiting, dyspepsia, stomach discomfort
Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders
Common: pruritus
Uncommon: rash
Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders
Uncommon: back pain, musculoskeletal stiffness, neck pain, muscle spasms, pain in extremity
General disorders and administration site conditions
Common: injection site reactions (such as bruising, pruritus, warmth)
Uncommon: asthenia, chest pain, malaise"

Originally Posted by pinhead

I would expect the list of rare side effects is there for legal reasons so someone could not say they were uninformed.

have you even read the information sheet? they are not in there for insurance or legal reasons.

Originally Posted by pinhead

For comparison, here is a list of possible side effects from the information sheet for Alka Seltzer: nausea, vomiting, ringing in ears, diminished hearing, confusion, agitation, lethargy, fever, coma, respiratory alkalosis, metabolic acidosis, convulsions, pulmonary edema, cardiovascular collapse.

whats the chances? 1 in 10? 1 in 1000? 1 in 100000000? and i don't ever remember anyone saying "here kids take an alka-seltzer just in case!"

Originally Posted by pinhead

One last word on Aspartame. A medline search of 111 references regarding Aspartame toxicity gives us the publicly accessible reference. Note the last line in the abstract - Aspartame is safe!

Crit Rev Toxicol. 2007;37(8):629-727.

Aspartame: a safety evaluation based on current use levels, regulations, and toxicological and epidemiological studies.
Magnuson BA, Burdock GA, Doull J, Kroes RM, Marsh GM, Pariza MW, Spencer PS, Waddell WJ, Walker R, Williams GM.

Burdock Group, Washington, DC, USA. bmagnuso@umd.edu

Aspartame is a methyl ester of a dipeptide used as a synthetic nonnutritive sweetener in over 90 countries worldwide in over 6000 products. The purpose of this investigation was to review the scientific literature on the absorption and metabolism, the current consumption levels worldwide, the toxicology, and recent epidemiological studies on aspartame. Current use levels of aspartame, even by high users in special subgroups, remains well below the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and European Food Safety Authority established acceptable daily intake levels of 50 and 40 mg/kg bw/day, respectively. Consumption of large doses of aspartame in a single bolus dose will have an effect on some biochemical parameters, including plasma amino acid levels and brain neurotransmitter levels. The rise in plasma levels of phenylalanine and aspartic acid following administration of aspartame at doses less than or equal to 50 mg/kg bw do not exceed those observed postprandially. Acute, subacute and chronic toxicity studies with aspartame, and its decomposition products, conducted in mice, rats, hamsters and dogs have consistently found no adverse effect of aspartame with doses up to at least 4000 mg/kg bw/day. Critical review of all carcinogenicity studies conducted on aspartame found no credible evidence that aspartame is carcinogenic. The data from the extensive investigations into the possibility of neurotoxic effects of aspartame, in general, do not support the hypothesis that aspartame in the human diet will affect nervous system function, learning or behavior. Epidemiological studies on aspartame include several case-control studies and one well-conducted prospective epidemiological study with a large cohort, in which the consumption of aspartame was measured. The studies provide no evidence to support an association between aspartame and cancer in any tissue. The weight of existing evidence is that aspartame is safe at current levels of consumption as a nonnutritive sweetener.

from personal experience i know aspartame to be toxic. i know way to many people who had serious and often quite unusual or rare health problems mysteriously disappear without any treatment, just by removing usually either diet soda, or gum from their diet. i have seen many studies for and against it. many say it may have something more to do with the breakdown ingredients of Aspartame that greatly increase in concentration when stored at high temperatures. in my mind this one is still very much up in the air.