[Cap'n]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

thats a Pablo's dog. it is repetitive conditioning, not true learning. there are some animals that can do true learning but they do not posses rational thought and a self awareness.

Steve

That's Pavlov BTW, but repetetive conditioning is not was I was describing anyway. There are many instances of animals learning new methods of survival which they have discovered through trial and error, just like people do. Both lower and higher forms of life do this.

A couple examples from the primates:

A boy once fell into a gorilla enclosure and was knocked unconscious, I believe it was in L.A. The crowd panicked, screaming for help, wondering if the powerful animals would harm the child. A female gorilla who had recently lost her baby rushed over to the boy and hunched over him, baring her teeth at the other gorillas keeping them away. She them picked the boy up and carried him over to the door where the zoo-keepers enter to feed the primates and clean the cage. She then moved a short distance away, again keeping the other gorillas away until someone came in and took the boy away to safety. This showed learned behaviour which was not taught, advanced problem solving and empathy of another being.

Koko, http://www.koko.org/# the famous signing gorilla, has a vocabulary of over 1000 words in American Sign Language (ASL) and can understand over 2000 spoken English words, responding in ASL. She calls herself by her name, tells people she calls "friends" how she is feeling, describing a full range of emotions ranging from happy, sad, to embarrassment. She desired a pet and was given a kitten she named Ball. She now wants to have children and says she will teach them sign language. I find it hard to disagree that Koko has self awareness.

I do believe that humans have evolved in many ways beyond that which other animals have, that is beyond question. But when it comes to processes as simple as knowing who they are and what they are doing I believe there are many other species alive that have this ability. To return to the origin of this thread let's consider the mourning of the passing of a member of an elephant herd. The other members of the herd will spend days with the dying and the deceased, caressing the body, bellowing mournful cries. They will go without food and water just to be with their longtime companion. Those especially close to the deceased will often spend extra time with the body after the rest of the herd decides to move on. This process will even be repeated when the herd comes upon the bones of those they once knew. Pretty advance for "just an animal."