Ich aftermath... what to do now?
 

Hey guys so I went through ich it killed over half my population...
nut now I am looking into the tank lately and the remainder of the fish seem like they are happy and healthy.
it has been about a week since any noticeable spots have been on the fish.

my question is now how long do I have to wait or what do I need to do to repopulate and make a healthier tank than before?

thanks

Just wait and let fish regain strength.

How many fish in what size of tank?
It could have been a sick fish or stress related. Find out why and fix the problem.

its a 75 gal with 30 gal sump
I have a foxface
ln hawkfish
diamond goby
lubbocks wrasse

they are all seemingly healthy, I added a tang and that's what killed everything off...

This may not be what you would like to hear but ich is still in your tank. Ich just doesn't go away by itself without any treatment while you still have fish in there. I would suggest you move all your fish to a QT tank and treat them there with a proven method. Let DT fallow (fishless) for 12+ weeks.
Good luck!

Just keep the fishes in a healthy environment.....that's all. Feed them food dipped in garlic and clean water and the ich won't stand a chance against the fishes immune system. No stress + good food in garlic keeps the ich away ;)

He's 100% correct. You need strict QT systems in place before adding fish and now need your tank to go fallow as stated above. It's a proven fact you can read all about it the reference library on this site.
Here is a primer:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ths-facts.html

and yes, no one wants to hear it sorry.

You could just leave tank as is for now. Let fish regain health and like raeid said immune system will do the rest

Or strict qt but that's not in my future

For sure you could leave them, you might not see 'signs' of Ich, feed them garlic or what ever miracle cure you want but that's not how to treat Ich. I suggest you read up on Ich and make your own choice, roll the dice and wait until the next time you wipe out your fish unnecessarily or do what is proven to kill Ich. Leaving them now sure is a lot easier then fallow tanks and QT for sure.

Garlic Extract. Raeid is right on track. IMO removing them all will just cause a whole lot more stress and before you know it there's Ick in your quarantine. Not chunks of garlic. Kent Garlic Extreme is good stuff. I've heard you can get garlic extract at health food stores but I have not checked. Probably way cheaper.

Ich is far from the end of the world. Weak fish will die for varying reasons as do seemingly healthy fish. Sure round them up and freak the lot of them out by putting them in a stressful situation/tank rather than the surroundings they are use to. Move forward with the fish you have, in the tank they are in. Feed as the others said and ignore the dooms day prognosticators.

Hardly the end of the world or dooms day just a parasite.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1992196

Have read. Ignore the facts if you choose.

Ich normally will go completely un-noticed on healthy fish and you would never know if it was in your system or not. Tangs can be very aggressive and territorial and probably stressed your fish out which caused a huge decrease in their immune system. Removing the fish now in their immune compromised state to an unfamiliar tank to treat them may have the exact opposite of the desired result and kill them. As others have said I would just let them be and don't add any new fish to the DT for a few months so the fish can regain their strength and security.

actually its the other way around....the medicinal ingredient in garlic is allicin....the compound breaks down very quickly reducing the effectiveness....if you want the medicinal qualities, fresh garlic is the best way....garlic extracts are more of an appetite stimulant....it smells good....
http://www.ehow.com/about_5262161_an...in-garlic.html

Well, sadly, the damage is done... The only real cure for ich in your tank is prevention. But I want to stress that QT without treatment is not good enough. I did that once, and still ended up with ich in my DT, even though the fish did not show any symptoms while in the QT. But they obviously were still carriers.

However, when I have used this method, I have been 100% successful. And as described, there are many other benefits, too, with getting your new fish strong and healthy before going into your DT.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...t-process.html

Oh I didn't know that. My bad. I just call it garlic extract. I've used the Kent Garlic Extreme for years and it has worked great for my fish. The ingredients say 99% Allium sativum extract (garlic juice)
So are you saying that by using this it is not working for Ick and just a food stimulant?

I find threads like this very interesting. First of all, let me emphasize that I am a huge proponent of QT'ing. I do it with all of my fish. After months of reading about ich and the best way to treat fish in QT for it, I choose the tank transfer method. I tried some of the others (Hypo, copper etc.) but killed fish doing it so they weren't for me.
But I completely understand the inability for some to be able to do it, either because of space constraints, time or whatever else people have reasons for not doing it. Plus I also completely understand the unwillingness to empty a display tank for 3-4 months. But here is a truth: If you look back at all the fish that people have talked about on here that have died, I bet you'd see more have died in QT than from ich. If someone does not have a standing QT protocol and a system to deal with sick fish, then I would also recommend garlic and trying to boost immune function rather than try a QT set up that they've never done before. But I would also encourage them to research proper QT'ing and if at all possible implement it in the future. Yes, I know ich would still be in the tank, but there are far worse illnesses out there for fish than ich. Marine velvet to name one.
Anyways, not that anyone asked for it, but that's my $0.02 :D

Sorry 0.02 doesn't exists any more. Maybe its your 0.05? :mrgreen:

Funny how ich always gets so many debates :P I consider ich as simple cold. Drink lots of water, honey and rest :D Same for fish, lots of food with garlic and clean water...simple as that ;)

Unfortunately, it is comments like these that often mislead newbies into taking the easy route and not QT'ing new fish properly. You can compare it to a cold if you like, but I'm quite certain that more fish have died in home aquariums due to ich (and velvet), than for any other reason.

Read this, and then tell me that healthy fish can't be killed by Ich.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine...ths-facts.html

Ofcourse ich an velvet are responsible for maximum death because they are very common in the hobby and people always look for cure after things have gone terribly wrong. There are many great tank owners who don't QT and there are many extremely poor tanks whose's owners QT. At the end, it depends on the individual and nothing beat's good husbandry. And if good husbandry is "the easy route", then so be it. I have fought ich myself and I did nothing but feed and feed and feed and I am yet to see any ich in my tank.

I strongly believe that in the end, nothing beats good husbandry :) And fish's immune system. And I do believe that "comment's like these" part was a bit harsh since there are some experienced hobbyist who did agree to my previous post ;)

Honestly, nothing is "wrong" or "right" in this hobby other than few basic rules (like keeping marine fishes in saltwater :lol:). It all comes down to individuals. Some have success with hypo and copper while others don't....did they do it wrong? Maybe, maybe not....but I would say its all part of the nature's game.

And healthy fish can't get ich.....healthy fish, when stressed, can get ich ;)

I just don't get it; how can a sick fish which is stressed already is further stressed by catching it, putting it in a small tank and doing things like jumbling between tanks, making it live in a hyposaline water or passing strong medicine like copper through its gill can help. Sure a surgery can be performed with no anesthesia but how would it feel? Maybe I am over-pessimist and rely overly on good husbandry.....

That's why I advocate quarantine as prevention with a standby QT already cycled and ready to accept fish. I agree that transferring fish already infected to a hastily set up QT has a good chance of failing.

You should read this article, too. It further explains how hypo reduces stress in fish and is a good proactive routine with new fish.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish

At this stage, it looks like the fish in your QT have developed a certain amount immunity to the parasite, which is why you're no longer seeing any active pustules. Acquired immunity has been demonstrated in a bunch of fish in the literature, but the parasite is definitely still in your system.

If you have no plans of going through the extremely intensive and time consuming process of taking the remaining fish out and treating them in QT while fallowing your tank for 10-12 weeks, your best bet for re-stocking is to not buy any fish that are known to be highly susceptible to ich, as it's in your system. IE, don't buy any more tangs.

+1

What people don't realize is that there is often different strenght of ich and some strain might be mild while other are very strong and active and will multiply like crazy and overcome any fish, stressed or not.

It's the same thing with bacterias. You can have some vibrios bacterias in an aquarium and it wont affect anything but given the right conditions those bacterias could go wild and cause brown jelly on many corals.

Ich is one of the major fish killer. I think it kills more fish than any other disease put together, velvet included. It's just too common and people often don't do a thing about it and let their fish die.

You don't get it? well that's because it is not the right way to do things. It is not when the fish are full of ich and on their way out that it is a good time to treat, it is when they arrive and relatively healthy. That's why quarantine is so important, so that one can treat sick fish either as prevention or at least on time.

Of course if the fish are dying and breathing already so fast and still suffocating, catching them might finish them off...but if they are at that point they will probably die anyway.

Fish are strong, very strong. Imagine the traveling in small bags that they have to do? Problem is that ich is attacking their gills and they suffocate. That's what kill the fish, not being handled, not being cought, not being transfered between tanks.

The second killer of fish in quarantine is bad water quality and ammonia. Those are very easily handled with products like Amquel.

I got the same problem like urs. My yellow tang start scratch ing with sand and rocks. I start giving garlic food and set the 15w aqua uv sterlizer. Lets see what happend. I know uv sterilizer wont grabe ich from fish. But what ever will go in. Will die. And also I got skunk cleaner shrimp.

I am not taking about pre-ich QT over there but about post-ich QT; just thought about clearing it up :)

Yah I do have problem understanding many school of thoughts in this hobby ;) Well if one wants to post QT the fishes and leave it fallow for more than 2 months; its their tank and they are more than welcome to do it. I did a lot (and I mean A LOT!) of studies when my tank had ich and guess what worked: let them just heal by providing them with proper care. And why is there so many school of thoughts, even with just one disease like ich? Because different things worked for different people and everyone just thinks their method is right. QTing worked for some so they promote that while old school method worked for me and hence I promote it. :)

^^^ Wisers slow clap for mrhasan ^^^^^

here's food for thought.....wildlife biologists have long known that a certain percentage of caught and released game fish die from lactic acid build up due to the stress of being caught.....why are our fish any different?.....I QTed for a while and had no better results than just putting the new fish in the display.....every time we put a net to our fish we cause lactic acid build up that could prove to be fatal.....I feel that playing musical tanks with a fish is putting it through more than is necessary......if you are observant and make good decisions buying your fish you will greatly lessen the chance of introducing something nasty....

I know the idea seems stressful, but the fish that die from lactic acid build up in sport or commercial fishing go through a significantly more acutely traumatic capture process than what fish in a properly designed quarantine procedure will ever experience - either being smothered half to death in a huge drag net where they are trapped for hours trying to escape, or are hooked through the mouth and pulled from the water fighting the line with every ounce of strength they have for as long as possible. Scooping fish up quickly with a net (or better yet a tupperware container with holes drilled in the bottom) isn't really comparable, even if you're doing the tank transfer method and are doing it every few days. Not QTing is a method that works fine until it doesn't, and when it doesn't the amount of temporary stress your fish were spared by not QTing them becomes a moot point because they're dead. I would never criticize someone for not doing it because it's an annoying and time consuming process (I never used to), and if you're lucky it works fine. But I also understand how quickly one can become a quarantine convert when you've had a near tank wipe-out due to parasites.

If you don't quarantine new fish, you are actually putting them through more stress, I believe. Besides the disease prevention, while in the QT new fish have a chance to be acclimatized to your DT water (prior to the final transfer) and new foods. They then have a chance to become healthy and strong before going into your DT.

Otherwise, if thrown into the DT immediately, they may have to face hostile existing tank inhabitants (like my yellow tang) while in a weakened state, and not used to eating the new foods. If that isn't stress for a fish (and the aquarist watching all this), I don't know what is.

Moving existing stock from an infected DT to a QT is a whole different story, though. My problem would be just in trying to catch them. So yes, I would first try to feed them well and hope their health and immune system carry them through.

But the real solution, which I keep preaching, is prevention, by QT'ing new fish. That is the best for new fish, and for protecting your DT. And it is so easy, which is why I don't readily accept lame excuses for not doing it. I have a 30g QT running all the time, with a canister filter, and water changes are done using DT waste water (from changes), so it costs me next to nothing to keep running and available when I need it. And I use it a lot, actually, sometimes for new shrimp and corals, too (no hypo for them, of course). It is a lot more work to maintain a refugium, actually, as I have done that, too.

Not QTing new fish is like playing Russian roulette with their lives. 5 out of 6 times (reality is more like 50/50 though), they might get away with it. But when they don't, the fish have to suffer (and be stressed) with ich. I just don't think that is very responsible, IMO.

so you dont think that chasing a fish around a glass box with a net for a few minutes or for one minute several times in a couple weeks is stressfull to the fish?....I think you are vastly underestimating it, or perhaps are in denial about what we put our fish through....many game fish are hooked and released in less than a minute and still die from LA build up....how is that any different?....just cause there is no hook involved?

+1




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You mean I'm not supposed to use a hook to catch the fish in my aquarium? I knew something wasn't right in my methods.

LOL.....Ive done it before, it works:redface:

Using hook is sooooooooo out of style. I believe this is more effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJEG_5ZSpOc

so ive learned something from this thread....

basically fish are dirty disease carrying animals....so why do i want them again?:P

I cought a wrasse and a foxface with a small hook and they both survived just fine. If that whole thing about stressed fish dying would be true, no fish would ever reach our tanks. Ever tried to catch a wrasse from a reef tank? :) took me 3 minutes with a hook.

After all, most of them are cought with nets in the ocean, put in small buckets for days, sometimes weeks, then shipped for many hours in small bags.

If they survive that then the only thing that can kill them are parasites on their gills and skin, or attack from other agressive fish.

Most don't.

Where do you get that info? any reference to this? or stats?

I never said it wasn't stressful. I'm sure it's very stressful. I'd find a giant net descending from the sky and taking control of my physical position in the universe pretty stressful indeed. Though if I had any real moral concerns about the moment to moment acute level of stress a fish was under, I probably wouldn't have a tank. However, I'm not convinced that fish have much by ways of a deep, subjective emotional experience so other than the moment in which they are trying to not get eaten (caught) I don't think they think about it much. However, fatal lactic acid build up is a specific issue, and it's not one I've ever heard of being a problem in the context of aquarium quarantine procedures. Fatal lactic acid build up can only happen if the fish is exerting a huge amount of effort - enough to build up lactic acid to fatal levels. Pulling a fish from the water by a hook leads the fish to exert far more effort trying to get away, it's pulling against the force of the line as hard as it possibly can, same thing with keeping a fish in a drag net with thousands of others for hours. A fish that's been netted in a closed box might struggle in the net a bit, but it will be nothing compared to a fish fighting trying to get off a hook, and they are never in the net for more than a few seconds.

I've got 20 fish in my tank at the moment, and every single one of them went through a tank transfer protocol. I can also say that every single one of them went back to behaving completely normally within 20 minutes (about an hour for the anthias) of the transfer, including eating. Stressed, scared fish generally don't eat. They were caught using a tupperware with holes drilled in the bottom and other than trying to get away (which involved swimming no faster than they often do in the tank), there was very little struggling, a few thrashes as the water drained out of the tupperware. Yes it's stressful, but it's temporary and over vey quickly compared to what they went through to get to you. I've never heard of anyone losing a fish to the tank transfer protocol that wasn't from mismanaged water quality (a track record that copper should look upon with envy and self loathing). In fact, I would consider something like the tank transfer method to be the least stressful of all the ich treatment protocols because you're engaging the fish in a survival strategy they've spent hundreds of millions of years developing - they are literally built for the 'fight or flight' response and have a myriad of physiological pathways to activate and cope with it. They are not built to cope with hyposaline conditions, or to deal with toxic levels of physiological poisons, they just aren't necessarily immediately killed by them.

The goal with fish (and in humans, coincidentally) should be to avoid long term, chronic and systemic stress, as that's what will affect their overall health and lifespann. Poor water quality is a long term chronic stress. Keeping them at the wrong temperature, or under the wrong lighting, or with the wrong tank mates, or in too small of a box is a long term chronic stress. Keeping them in an environment that encourages higher ectoparasite loads than they would ever be exposed to in the wild is also a chronic stress. Exposing them to acute bursts of very short term temporary stress in order to avoid exposing them to chronic conditions that could possibly or kill them is the lesser of two evils IMO. It's like saying we shouldn't vaccinate our kids against the measles because they're afraid of needles.

Just google mortality rates of wild caught marine fish. It's been in news papers, books, magazines, editorials, etc for many years, this shouldn't be eye opening news for anyone in the hobby.