RIP-OFF Car Dealer!
 

This thread is a warning to potential car buyers and to ask assistance from any of you who do or may have worked in the car sales business.

In the spring of 2009, my wife wanted to trade in her '06 Mitsubishi Eclipse for a new car. She really liked the new Nissan Murano, so we went to the Nissan dealership (where my wife's nephew worked) to have a look. On the lot were both 09 and 2010 Muranos. Several of the 09's were American and had low or no mileage on them. The difference in price on these from the Canadian 09's and 10's was considerable so I called the salesman over to question him.

Me: "What's the deal on these American cars?"
Him: "Those were bought at an auction in Spokane. A dealer went under receivership."
Me: "I'm a little leery of buying a used car from the States; how do I know everything is fine with this car?"
Him: "Well, these cars were inspected and are all in top shape and carry a full warranty."
Me: "What about prior damage?"
Him: "None."
Me: "My wife really likes the burgundy one, can we take it for a test drive?"
(She test drove the car and loved it)
Me: "One of your mechanics is our nephew; do you mind if he has a quick look at it for us?"
Him: "Sure, no problem."

We then did the usual haggling over purchase price and trade-in amount on the Eclipse and finally made the deal.

(Fast forward to summer 2012 ) One day I notice the clearcoat and paint peeling off the hood. One can clearly see bondo where the paint has peeled off. WTF! We contact the dealership and they tell us to bring it in.
Him: "This car was clearly in an accident."
Me: "I see that. Why weren't we told this when we bought the car?
Him: "I guess we didn't know."
Me: "Well whatever. I want you to make this right, the car is still under warranty."
Him: "Unfortunately, warranty does not cover damage from an accident."
Me: "As I understand it any car that has had damage to it must be reported to any potential buyer."
Him: "Only if we have knowledge of the damage, and we obviously did not."

After a futile and heated argument, I told them I'd sue and left.

I took the car to an autobody man I know and had him look at it. After removing some of the body parts he found bondo in the hood, front fender, bumper and back bumper. It looks like this car was hit in the front hard enough to be pushed into something in the rear. I had him take pictures of all of this for me. Then I paid the $50 for the Car Fax, which does not have any record of any damage to this vehicle. I then went on-line and found this from ICBC: "All dealers in B.C. are required to know and disclose the history of the vehicles they sell. In addition, the dealer is required by law to disclose anything that would be material to your decision to purchase the vehicle. This could include, but is not limited to, such things as:
. whether the vehicle was declared as salvage and rebuilt
. was stolen and recoverd,
. sustained damage under $2,000
. the actual amount of any damage over $2000.

I am now in the process of writing Nissan Canada with my case. Do any of you who may be in the trade have anything to add, and do I have any chance of winning? And if so, am I right in demanding a new hood, fender and bumpers? Thankx for any info you can give me.

Every dealer is a rip off. That's why they're called stealerships

I have read about dealerships using vehicles up to a certain mileage, not change titles and still being able to sell them as new vehicles. Perhaps the car was in an accident while being driven by the dealer's employee, was fixed then sold at auction as stated. In that case, the dealer would not have to put through insurance and have no claims history on the car. Sounds like an impact both front and back, I would be concerned about the car's frame and engine damage. Is there another shop you can take it to and ask them to look over?

With the VIN number, you should be able to trace the car back to the original dealer and find out if the story you were told is in fact true (receivership or bankrupt). If the report you have only shows the US dealer, then your dealer - someone scammed you.

Sorry to hear about your rotten luck.

Unfortunately, to get this resolved you're going to be riding on goodwill from the canadian dealership or Nissan Canada. I haven't worked in that industry for years (since before going back to school) but here's what I can tell you...

The dealerships liability is a bit of a grey area. Lots of dealers will buy vehicles unseen through satellite and computer auctions; to prove them liable you will need to prove that they KNEW the car had been in an accident and covered it up or that they didn't do an appropriate level of due diligence to find out whether it had been or not. If the carfax report showed nothing, and your own nephew passed the car I don't think you're going to have a leg to stand on in court. Dealerships are not obliged to spend thousands discovering every little problem a used car might have, and quite often if it looks good and starts nicely it just goes on the lot with a very cursory inspection. Odds are, they got screwed as well.

Nissan Canada may not be inclined to help since you bought an American car and a used one at that. The actual motor companies typically only care about new retail customers in their retail area. Think of it as buying a Samsung television from a pawnshop, Samsung really won't care if you have problems with the used TV. They might surprise you, but I'd bet that you'll get a nice email explaining that used cars is not really part of Nissan's business model.

Check this link out http://www.mvsabc.com/ , these guys seem to be in charge of overseeing the car industry in BC and might be able to help you out.

Coralgurl: Dealerships are allowed to sell cars as Demo's. Usually low mileage (Think under $10,000). It's still registered as a "new" vehicle but doesn't qualify for any incentive programs. These are typically last years model that didn't get sold in time for 0% financing or other fancy deals so they put some miles on them and offer them as a heavily discounted almost new vehicles. They can be a REALLY good deal.

[quote=Slick Fork;

Coralgurl: Dealerships are allowed to sell cars as Demo's. Usually low mileage (Think under $10,000). It's still registered as a "new" vehicle but doesn't qualify for any incentive programs. These are typically last years model that didn't get sold in time for 0% financing or other fancy deals so they put some miles on them and offer them as a heavily discounted almost new vehicles. They can be a REALLY good deal.[/QUOTE]

Agreed! These can be good deals. I've also read about dealers employees having accidents but this not being disclosed and they are still sold as new. I don't know that this is huge problem in Canada as I've read this on US sites referring to US dealers.

The situation totally sucks, I wish I could offer something more than this. Good luck!

Thanks for the replies guys. Coralgurl, the car is sound in every way other than the repaired hood, fender and bumpers. It still has low mileage. 23,000 miles and runs excellently. A very nice car. Just pi$$es me off that we will not get fair trade-in value and have had to pay for the repair of the hood ourselves.

Slick Fork, thanks for the info. Kinda what I was thinking too. A letter to the dealership and Nissan Canada can't hurt I guess. I will also add that my auto body guy said that in his opinion there is no way they could not have known about the repairs. Also, my wife sent an E-mail to her nephew and he will not return her call, which strikes me as kind of funny if he has nothing to hide. If the letters do not get us any satisfaction I will not throw good money after bad via legal proceedings. Put it down as Caveat emptor. :doh:

I would like to see the pics...

I'm currently in the Auto industry and have been for 15 years. I work with dealerships all over the province and for the most part they are all very good.
Here is my take on your situation. Because of the lack of good used vehicles in BC and because of the good dollar, many dealers have been buying "grey market" vehicles (ones out of the US). The are many rules in BC to protect the consumer and dealerships try very hard to follow these rules...but because US vehicles do not always report their accidents, there is very little the dealer can do to identify these. I doubt Nissan will help as they are dead set against the import of US vehicles into Canada.
My guess is that the only place you will ever get resolution is from the goodwill of the dealer.

Do you use the dealership in any other way than the original purchase? Many times there is so little money made on vehicles that dealers focus their goodwill spending on customers who help keep their doors open. You might be able to use that as leverage.

Best of luck to you...that is a bummer of a situation.

in reality car dealers rarely look at the cars they have on the lot, I used to buy cars in bulk and some times I would get smoking deals 2008 chevy uplander with 170km for 1200, was supposed to have 300,000km but they didn't double check mileage, and a 2009 F350 lariat crew dually for 13,000 with 170,000km... not sure why I got that cheap its 19,000 wholesale 24 retail...
I doubt you will win the case since there is no paper proof such as a carfax... imo they are a waste of money because if you get it fixed properly it gets put in a carfax, if its some drug dealer who gets in a bad wreck then gets his connection to "hook him up" with a cheap paint job thats done b4 the cops come, thats the one you don't want.
If you don't have a good eye for detail in a vehicle or have a close friend that does its best to buy brand new. otherwise there is always a chance of being screwed because most mechanics are not going to care enough to carefully look at everything. I see lots of vehicles pass a 160 point inspection then blow up 5 minutes down the road haha mainly ford diesels

I had a warranty problem with Toyota and after fighting with morons at the 1-800 number I called the better business bureau and bingo within a couple hour I was talking to the right person and got it all taken care of. It definitely worth a shot.

In the very least I think this is worth a letter to Nissan Canada and to the dealership.

Something that nobody else has touched on here is that the salesman was acting on behalf of the dealership, and the Nissan brand. In their capacity as employee they mislead you, intentional or not, and as a result you should have a leg to stand on.

Some big issues I see right off the fly from your post;
1) Lack of disclosure from the dealership
2) Employee/Salesman acting on behalf of the dealership and the Nissan brand and trying to pass the buck. There are laws dealing with this, when a company representative makes statements like the one above (no damage) there may be a leg here to stand on. By stating to you that the vehicle had no prior damage he was speaking on behalf of the dealership with that statement. You might be able to successfully argue the case that the saleman sold you a vehicle he stated was damage/history free, and you did not receive the goods as described. Now please note I'm trying to make the distinction between disclosure and the fact that you were mislead (intentionally or not) by the dealership upon discovery of the issue.


Include your photos in your letter and if you do send it, make sure you send the exact same letter to Nissan Canada, the Dealership and perhaps to the appropriate ombudsman body or BBB type organization. I like to include a little paragraph at the end about who else I've shared the story with as that seems to light some fires under people.


What about lemon laws? Anything under there that covers mis-representation of sold goods?

Catherine, I will be sending three letters: the dealership, Nissan Canada and the VSA (Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of British Columbia), who apparently really frowns on this kind of thing. Pictures along with statements from my body man and a 25 year head car salesman.
I like your idea of the threat of sharing my story; IE Facebook, Twitter, Local Newspaper Letters to the Editor, etc. I am waiting on the written and signed statements from the above and will then send off my letters and pics. Will keep you informed.

IME, you should also include a letter to global and make damn sure that Nissan Canada and the dealership know about it.

right better buisness bureau! I'd go that route for sure.

Right now there is an influx of US cars coming into Canada (mostly eastern Canada) that were damaged/written off when Hurricane Sandy hit New Jersey & NY.

Just make sure that all your correspondence is polite, but firm, and try to refrain from emoting or making threats. I typically just include either a CC list or address the letter to all parties right at the top and then within the body ask that collectively all those involved work to solve the issue to your satisfaction.

Now should they respond favourably and be inclined to help you solve your issue it could play out in two ways. Depending on what type of negotiator you are, your style, may impact the outcome. E.g. If you say you specifically want X in your letter they may not be willing to do so, however since you're really clear on only being willing to accept X they may not offer you options Y, Z or A. In short, be conscious on any negotiating or requests you make in your letter.

Good luck!

Good points. I agree. I think I will be better off by making my case and sticking to the facts: Hear what they have to say before I go all ape-$hit on them. I would be more than happy if they met me half way and split the cost of replacing the parts and new paint. Thanks for the advice.

Yup, in the past, when a company attempted to "screw" me, I explained how I would be contacting the local news outlets (i.e. Steele on Your Side) to present them with the facts of my case and request them do an expose on their company and business practices. That got their attention and they agreed very quickly to cancel the charges which I never should have been dinged with in the first place since I only asked for a quote and never agreed verbally or in writing to sign with their company.

When I had an issue with a defective product with The Shopping Channel, after bouncing back and forth with various customer "service" reps, I sent a letter via email to one other their executives (found the name online), mentioning how I had spent X number of dollars with TSC over the years, had not spent a dime since the dispute began several months earlier, am completely OCD and more than happy to share my unhappy experiences with EVERYONE I came into contact with, including posting negative feedback online and starting threads on every website I belonged to or planned to join, stating just the facts of the case and how badly TSC was handling it. (I mentioned the truism about how a happy customer will tell 5 friends, but an unhappy customer will tell EVERYONE). Within hours, I received a personal phone call from that executive (VP) who assured me that he had set into motion a complete refund of my purchase and that they would review my case to prevent future occurrences. Even gave me credit towards my next purchase.

So sometimes, when polite inquiries and negotiations fail, these kinds of tactics can work to make corporations realize that you're not just going to quietly go away and that the negative PR is not worth risking.

Hope you can resolve your situation to your satisfaction.

Anthony

Been there, 02 ford f350 blew the head gasket 2 weeks after I bought it... 80 000k on it.. And I babied it for those 2 weeks

My suggestion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sscHAUZwO_E

Bwahahaha! I sooooooooooooooooooo want to do that. I've got a 1 ton Ford truck just made for that.