So what do you think....
 

I just wanted to start a thread to ask those that have made it by the store what they think...
are there suggestions you have to make the store better.
are the prices fair.
what other livestock would you like to see being offered.
I look forward to any and all constructive criticism.
just please remember this is a family board....lol
I am trying to make Marine Experience a player in the saltwater scene within Edmonton and would appreciate your input
I will try in the future to offer more pictures of current stuff as I am sure that is a bit of concern for some..I am trying, just really busy as usual.
thanks in advance
Neal

Havent been to the store but do enjoy the photos. Are you shipping?

Haha Neil. I drove to north end. Went on Canreef to get address and found you were closed. Next time

hello Coralgurl
at this time, I am unable to ship due to weather and my lack of time
thanks for the thumbs up though.
Neal

Any other comments??
From posts on other threads, my perceived attitude on my posts is problematic for some people.
I am sorry if my wording on my posts comes across rude..that is not my attention.
I am a very practical, honest, straightforward guy that speaks his mind.
I spent 14 years as a member of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and it has apparently rubbed off on my personality in my directness.
If I have offended some with my posts, that is not intention.
I hope that others that know me would testify that, in person, I am a good guy that is very easy to talk to and passionate about what I do.
I truly do love this hobby and am trying my best to offer my customers the best I can.
on the other hand, my 14 years as a infantryman has also given me tough skin..so if you do have comments about things you don`t agree with, please let me know those as well.
thanks
Neal

Although I have never met you, I completely understood what you were saying, and agree. Been there, done that. So frustrating waiting for people who do not show.

All the best, by the way.

The only way these threads work is if your remove peoples accountability otherwise you won't get honest replies. While some can still hide behind usernames for the most part I think Edmonton is one of the most actively meeting cities so chances are you know who people are or could easily find out. Now not saying you would hold grudges but most probably just won't take the chance, despite the fact you're trying to improve things people will take the easy way out and remain quiet, everyone would rather remain friends than enemies with LFS unless the store offended the person in some way.

That said I've never had an issue speaking my mind and although I've never been to the store I find a couple things about it troubling and I think others might agree but maybe not.

First relates to your quarantine procedure which just sounds quite strange. 3 weeks, where does that come from and exactly what are you achieving with that? Unless you have multiple setups that you rotate fish to and from and you only bring in orders every three weeks I see no way of it being effective at disease control. Obviously there is cost involved in treating all your fish, off site I might add, so customers are paying a premium for it so I think they should now more about the process and what's involved.

The second thing I have troubles with is the fact the store is located in your basement. Basement operations are not typically something I favor, while it's one thing to sell some frags or start out small and home based with the intention of eventually moving up to an actual store front it's a whole other thing to actually setup an official store with business hours in a residence. It's amazing you can even be zoned for that, you must have good neighbors because I sure wouldn't like it if my neighbor opened a shop in his home. Personally I think if you want a salt store open a salt store with a retail location like everyone else and compete on an honest level. You already have an off-site quarantine location so why not open the store there? You could use your basement as the off site location for quarantine instead.

That's it from me and why if in Edmonton it's unlikely I'd stop by. I did speak with someone from Edmonton shortly after your opening and it was mentioned things were disorganized and not overly clean perhaps suggesting the official opening was premature. I have no idea if it's true or not or if it is to what scale. It was just briefly mentioned during normal conversation.

Leah, thanks for the support.
Sphelps, thanks for the reply.
I can appreciate the fact that people are not willing to be negative..but that is actually more what I am looking to help me better the store.

For the quarantine process, I am actually going to reduce the process to a 2 weeks process as the financial costs to go for so long are quite high.
I have 6 various quarantine systems which I rotate the fish through.
when I receive an order, I remove all current fish that have been previously quarantined in a system and put them into other systems that have previously be quarantined and place the new fish in that system.
if I do leave any fish in the system then they do not get taken out of the system for at least 3 weeks (soon to be 2)
I then replace the fish in the store that are sold from systems that have gone through the quarantine process.

As for the fact that it is in my house, i dont have the time to run a full time store as I have many other irons in the fire.
the quarantine systems are set up in my limo shop which is zoned industrial not retail, which is why I don`t have the store there.
I may look at opening a full retail store in the future, but all depends on the response (although I am going to be applying to grad school for my PhD in Psychology, so dont see it happening in the near future).


I certainly feel that I am operating on a honest level and my prices are certainly not going to cause people to come running because I am undercutting others.
I am trying to offer a good, healthy selection of stuff at reasonable prices.

As to the comment about being disorganized and dirty, to be honest i am not really sure where that is coming from.
I admit, the store is not completely finished (missing trim here and there), but everytime that I have had the store open, things have been clean and organized as much as possible.
it is a tight space, but I feel that I have done well with the 600 square feet that I have available.

thanks for the input and the concerns.
Neal

I still don't understand the quarantine procedure, is it for disease control or just observation? Perhaps the intent is to keep things secretive but IMO you're basically advertising your livestock is healthier/better than the competition because of this procedure. To me it just seems like you have some tanks off site that essentially act as disease breeding grounds and you presoak all your fish in them for 2 weeks prior to sale. You'll need to share specific details if you want to use the procedure to add value to your store stock. I really don't see the point, 2 weeks is nothing in terms of real quarantine and only resulting in more stress. You will still introduce disease into your store tanks just like everyone else.

I don't want to comment too much on the other stuff as it's exiting the point of the thread but most businesses start from nothing and risk is always involved (why business loans and grants exist). Not wanting to take risk is not an excuse and whether you realized it or not operating the same business as others without the same overhead is undercutting them, regardless whether the money ends up in your customers pocket or your own. Personally I think you're on a very fine line with major home based business regulations.

Hello again
I am not trying to be secretive in the least about my quarantine process..I appreciate the oppurtunity to clarify my position

the quarantine process allows a few things.
First, I am currently treating my quarantine systems with a very rigidly controlled and frequently tested therapeutic level of cupramine to ensure disease control.
I have struggled to find the most viable way to quarantine.
Thanks to Aquattro's suggestions, I am doing more research into chloroquine phosphate as a viable option.
However, there are some limitations to its use as well and I am trying to get more answers. Hence the current use of cupramine in my quarantines.
I started out using hyposalinity. However, the process is too long of a time period to be effective and it is not effective against marine velvet

Further, if the system has any fish that have an unrecognized disease or there is excessive amounts of death in that system, I will not sell anything from that system until there has been stability or lack of any sign of serious disease for at least 2 weeks.

As well, beyond disease control, every fish in my store eats. If I have not physically seen the fish eat, it will not be in the store.

In a couple of instances I have sold people fish shortly after their arrival it has been at the request of the customer and they received a reduction of price accordingly.

Overall, in the first two weeks of a fish landing from overseas, I would estimate about 25 percent of those fish die within the first 2 weeks.
Therefore, by holding the fish for those 2 weeks, I am absorbing the cost of the fish that will die within that period, verses the customer having them die in their tanks.

For your other concerns:
I didn't state that I didn't want to take the risk. I am completely self-employed and know all about risk.
I am not starting a "true" storefront, not because of risk, but because I can't commit to such a venture, as I have another business to run.
I have over 40 grand invested in this fish business as it sits right, all of which came from me..not a bank because they don't like self-employed individuals.
Those who aren't self-employed may not realize as to how difficult it is get money from anyone when you don't have a set paycheck.
Self-employed individuals have an almost impossible time receiving any financing thru banks and grants are near impossible to receive for a venture such as this.

As for unfair competition:
I gutted my basement of its one bedroom apartment to start this business at loss of 1000.00 per month in rent.
When you consider I have only about 600 square(if that) of usable space, I am actually paying more per foot for my store than my shop where I store my limos.
My other operating expenses are on line with other vendors as I still have to pay electricty, etc.
Even without taking into account of the rent, my current revenue is certainly not covering the cost of the livestock and operating expenses or even close.
Hopefully, in the future as my customer base will grow, and I will actually be able to make some return on my investment.

As for the fine line, I can ensure you that I was totally upfront of my intentions of my business when I applied for my business permit and it fits well within the legal boundaries as set forth by the City of Edmonton.

I realize that we probably aren't going to see on the same page on this debate of home-based businesses.
But I hope I did address your concerns as much as i could beyond me closing the doors for good.

thanks again for the input.
Neal

Last time I checked we lived in a free country were capitalism and entrepreneurship is encouraged. You don't need to explain or justify your private business to anybody. Store front businesses also have a lot of benefits over home based businesses such as enormously more visibility to the general public, larger volume discounts on stock (also directly related to visibility), greater tax reductions/credits, etc. If you want to set up a store with 10 tanks the equipment cost outlay would be the same regardless of location. There are certain LFS that sell their live stock for twice as much as other LFS, does that mean that the other stores are all under cutting?:biggrin: Should every store have the exact same price on everything so we can eliminate competition and well run stores can't be rewarded with better profits than a poorly run store?

I haven't been to your store yet Neal but I have bought things off you in the past and you were a pleasure to deal with. I'm just in the process of shutting down one tank and establishing another and when everything is good I look forward to shopping at your home based business.

Before this thread takes a turn for the worst please note opinions were requested and I gave mine which I believe could be considered general concerns. The goal here from my understanding is constructive criticism and not slandering those who bring up concerns. Running retail stores on residential property has been against bylaw every where I've lived so I made some assumptions, I don't know what the exact laws in Edmonton are but such businesses would be quickly shut down around here with the simple complaint from a neighbor regarding reduced parking. I've known a couple people in the past having such issues with home based businesses and they weren't even close to retail. I guess the rules are different where you are and that has been clarified, this is beneficial information others may appreciate, I know I do.

For the record I am self employed, I know what's involved especially in the aquarium trade as I have past experience in that. My point was if this was a serious business venture you should consider dropping one of your other time consumers. A side line business like this will not likely take off, costing you more in the long run which appears to already be the case. IMO selling the limo business might be a good start and perhaps allowing you to do something you're more passionate about.

As for the quarantine, doesn't make sense to me but that's personal opinion based on 2 weeks not being long enough to treat most parasites. I don't think quarantine is really the right word for advertisement. It holds more purpose in observation which most stores do just not offsite.

Anyways I appreciate you addressing my concerns, my intent was to be constructive.

thanks intarsiabox for the support.
I agree sphelps I did ask for opinions, so thank you for yours.
I am afraid we will need to agree to disagree.
I personally would rather buy a fish that has been quarantined for 2 weeks and I know that is eating than buy a fish that just landed the day before like some of the stores do in the city (not all stores do this and I know that thanks).
but to each their own and each side will have their own arguments..
some will come to my store, others to the other stores.
I must say though for you to suggest I should give up my steady source of income from my limo company to do this fish store fulltime is a bit beyond a suggestion that will make my store better...and I find it a bit presumptuous on your part to make such a statement.
I am going to continue to do what I am doing, sell stuff on the weekends and during personal appointments... and make a go of it.
if it doesn't work, so be it.
but yeah, I am not going to give up a reliable source of income to become a "real" store, because I feel I already am a real store.
thanks again for the input.
looking forward to hearing from others and their concerns.
thanks
Neal

I don't know if I could ever get rid of that limo, that thing is amazing! But I totally agree, Neal should open a store in Sherwood Park.:biggrin:

Hmm I don't mean to be presumptuous but in all reality I would say the majority of successful business owner quit some sort of steady income to pursue something they were more passionate about. The best stores out there are a result from the owner putting everything they had into it. Not saying you haven't invested a lot but the reality is it's not your priority and these things tend to show in more ways than one. Limited store hours to begin with then unexpected closures already such a short time after being open. Personally unless I was your "buddy" I wouldn't put up with it and shop elsewhere for convenience. I mean in all reality what are you really offering that other stores don't? It's a competitive market place for sure, definitely no shortage of salt stores in Edmonton.

As far as the quarantine goes I don't think it's a matter of agreeing to disagree, pretty simple is it's not a quarantine procedure as it really does nothing for disease. While you might see benefit from fish already eating it really makes no difference unless the fish is known as a finicky eater and if that's the case time and effort is required to train them on frozen which you've made perfectly clear you don't have. Fish keeping 101 states don't buy a fish unless it's eating, you can do this at any store and you don't have to buy it if it's not eating. We have a store here that pulls the QT card all the time, it's quite obvious it's complete BS and it's annoying to hear and puts me and many others off the store while there are many others that fall for it only to later realize they've introduced disease into their tank. The point I'm making is the fact you advertise all your fish are quarantined suggests they are disease free which I think we have established not to be the case. It's something people talk about for sure and effects reputation.

I think this thread as pretty much came to the end of its usefulness.
I never have stated my fish are disease free and ensure that my customers know that. if you have come to the store, you would be aware of this.
I do not agree with you on your argument on quarantine, i fully realize that is is not guaranteeing anything but it is still does offer some protection...but to each their own.

anyways, I am not getting into more debate about passion, lack of commitment etc... or the right and wrong of what I am doing.
Point blank, I am doing it and will not be stopping anytime soon.
I appreciate your concerns, and I will keep them in mind.
thanks
Neal

Well I for one can't wait to come check it out :) its always nice to have a variety of places to go to!

yep it is nice to have a selection to choose from.
every store has their own "stuff" for everyone to gleam over.
which is all part of the fun of the hunt for that coral that needs to fill that hole in the corner of your tank.
looking forward to seeing you here...and the good thing is that Red Coral is only a 2 minute drive and is definitely worth that stop..Steve has lots of stuff to fill the gaps in our tanks as well(i have dozens of zoas from Steve over the last couple of years to help feed my Zoa addiction)
thanks
Neal

Ah awesome thread. I'm definitely gonna stop by this weekend if there isn't too much snow on the roads lol.

Really an opinion should perhaps only be justified after visiting the store. :redface:

With retail, it is about price, selection, quality and service. You can't be the best at all of them (and make a profit). But you need to choose what will bring your customers back. And be sure that none of them will be reasons for customers to never come back.

I was in retail my whole career, and it is a very tough business indeed. There are much easier ways to make money. But if you can get a loyal following, and figure out the right mix of products and volume that work, it can be very gratifying.

I wish we had a SW store in Langley with your passion and attitude. Your willingness and courage to solicit feedback is to be applauded. I hope it helps you to improve your business. Best of luck.