Scams in Buy/Sell forums
 

There have been recent complaints over sending money and not receiving goods. One complaint is about a user that has scammed several people on another board, who also had several items posted here. This user is currently banned.
Please keep in mind that we have no control over who lists what, and when attempting to purchase from a user that has single digit posts, there is an element of risk involved.
Please be sure to take whatever precautions required to be comfortable with sending a stranger money. Get contact info, phone numbers, etc. Verify them. We have hundreds of transactions that take place every month without issue, however there is always going to be some risk.

If you feel you have been scammed, after waiting an appropriate amount of time, please contact a staff member for direction. Although there is little we can do, we can provide the enrolling email and IP address of the person if you wish to pursue this through legal channels. If we concur, we will remove any posts by the person selling anything and disable the account.

You can also contact us to verify if someone has generated complaints. It's rare, as in 2 or 3 that we're aware of ever, but it does happen.

I had this happen to me in another forum and I was able to track the kid down. I called parents even had his neighbor show up at the house and tell him in person the cops had been called. Got the message across real quick.

If you PM me their info I'll see what I can do.

Would it be feasible to restrict new users' access to the buy/sell feature until they have been a member for a few months and/or have minimum number of posts, like 20,30 or 50? RC does this I believe & although it's still no guarantee, I reckon it would discourage at least a few of the would be scammers.

I think this is a good idea, I think it would definatly reduce the number of scams.
Also give you a little more confidence in buying from new users.

Honestly, it doesn't happen that much, and I know people who's sole purpose of signing up is they are shutting down, someone suggested posting here and they list their stuff. They really don't want to hang around for months talking about stuff they no longer have interest in. I only recall one incident where someone actually got ripped off for a controller, and 4 years later I found it and offered it back to the guy who should have got it.
We have another case now where someone signed up here has clearly robbed people on RC, but not here yet and I've banned the account and removed the posts.
We may possibly have a third, but still too early to tell. The first was actually from a long time member with years posting, so that wouldn't have helped. The benefits to the members in getting deals I think outweighs the risk that something goes sideways.

So even if we're up to 3 in 10+ years, that's not bad. If you're going to send money, use paypal so you have some recourse.

Don’t penalize someone for having a lower post count , buyers should conclude their business personally or with a service like PayPal. Just because someone has been posting allot does not make them " safe "

If you are sending money write them a cheque, and memo exactly what it's for; if they cash the cheque it's like entering into a contract if you needed to plea in small claims court.

Much better than paypal.

Much easier to find them too, so another good option. One of the people that got scammed on RC filed with paypal and got a refund, so that's still a good route.

I got scammed once a couple of yrs ago on this forum... it wasn't much. Don't think he is around anymore. One thing I learned.....if they say they sent it ask for the postal reciept or tracking number as proof...in my case he said he threw it away. This was the only incident that I have had....

Long time Members or Junior members it doesn't matter, scams can happen at anytime. What happened to the rule "if its too good to be true, then it likely is" I know there are great deals on CR but ppl lets not let our guards down and start sending money to a stranger! Take a step back, the deals of the centrury always pop up :biggrin:

I have sent money to complete strangers on canreef many times and called myself an idiot the whole time I did it :lol: Thankfully I have never yet been scammed out of my money (I have been scammed a few times shipping corals but that is a whole other story :sad: )

suggest the board considers using a user feedback.

check out www.thirdgen.org for an idea in the classified section. Similar to ebay, you can see positive, negative and neutral posts with a short explanation.

This is a good idea in theory.... But think about why most people are here. It's for buy and sell.

I hated not being able to post but and sell on rc and even though I can now, I stay here because it appeared more welcoming to new members.

It's a rarity. And anytime you shop online from an unknown person, its your risk.

As Brad stated.... A single poster is buyer beware. Ànd seriously, it's crazy to wire money to somebody hoping they will ship unless its a business.

Scams will never disappear. It's a shame.

Lol this is why i don't ship cuz with my luck it would get lost

Blah. It is what it is , IMO. Sometimes you buy stuff from other aquarists and its great equipment or frags....the next time its crap.

Same for vendors...sometimes its better than even expected....next time....well, lets just leave it at that.

All goes with the territory, again, IMO.

I only buy off of active users. I've never been ripped off yet nor received something that was junk or in not working order. I've only been ripped off by stores and both are no longer in business anymore either. Same location too. But thanks to tips on here I know where one of the guys now works:boxing:

Only issue I have had was with a user from Prince George :wink::wink:

I have bought and sold piles on here all over most of the problems if not all were encountered from the shipping of the product.

This is and always will be an issue on any site that allows buy/sell when I was buying for my tank I only bought from people that were active and known on the site and when I sold I made damn good and sure buyer knew what they were getting into and what was expected.

Basically use common sense

Haha I wasn't driving the bus:lol:

On another forum I'm on there is a trader rating system... It seems to work well. At least you can see if they have a positive or negative trading history!!!!! Also you can see how many trades they have done!

Pretty much why I am insisting on a local sale for an expensive item I am currently selling on here. If things somehow go wrong it can create a lot of hassle. For example, I sold a wavebox to a guy in Winnipeg over a year ago. Canada Post delivered it to the wrong house, and wouldn't admit that they made a mistake. I wasn't sure if the person I sold it to was telling the truth or if Canada Post was that incompetent. Fortunately the package was recovered after a few days at a neighbours house. It still caused tension between the buyer and I, and also required several calls on my part to Canada Post. It was a needless source of stress for about a week! Never shipping again.

FS: Dream Zoa pack! Will ship at buyer's expense!

Utter Chaos 10+ Polyps
Bowsers 10+ Polyps
True Darth Mauls 10+ Polyps
Blue Eye Blondes 25+ Polyps
Blue Agaves 25+ Polyps

All yours for $150 OBO. I'll even throw in a frag of Oregon Tort.

Cash only. Please send to (PO Box address).

PM for details and pics!

Well that's a good deal :lol:

Ship to places lol? :)

When I first started with concept had a young guy come in and needed a tank in an emergency well were custom so I didn't have anything available not in that kind of rush

I had just had my display built but was still buying equipment so I says take my new tank hasn't even seen water I even gave it at glass cost and said just pay me when you can after all he was a young kid in a bad jam about to lose livestock and was dealing with a cracked filled tank

The following week gave him liverock free and some other odds and ends I wasn't using

I got 1 payment out of three which was right on time , none of the other payments came , made arrangements to have it paid on jan1 of last year that never happened

Small world though and I turn around one day at big Al's and boom were race to face and I say dude why?

Sure enough his grandma died and I felt bad said its ok a text would have been nice but I understood

Next day seen him joining a frag alot group buy on canreef for $300 he posts so now I'm mad and tell him as much

Here we are over a year later and I've never seen any more oayments I've had to buy the tank twice and looked liked an idiot to the boss as he warmed me it was a bad idea , well he was right

He posts on here from time to time and turns out he's burned 2 other reefers I deal with in the city

Now it's pay upfront for everything or move on friend or not

Was shipping a box to Yellowknife was a shared package with me and one of the vendors at the time , I get a message from a guy in whitecourt up past Edmonton saying he wants coral well it's late in the day but I say I can prob get it out with my other package

He orders $200 of corals from me and $200 from the vendor I slap covered his corals from the vendor and paid for shipping so was alot if money , I figure hes on here lots brand new big " theme " build on canreef

I go through with it all on my pocket and time

Corals shop and next day I send a pm saying did you get it , he says he got called back up north suddenly and his wife received it and from what she can tell looks good and says he will have her emt shortly

No emt comes so after several days I send another pm saying I never received a emt, he says that outvofcthe order the zoas were great but sps from vendor showed up bleached so he's not paying for those

I explain that unpaid for his sps , full retail , if there was an issue he should have called me right away I can't argue the fact a week later with the vendor . Also no pics available so just going on word

I know where this is going so I say ok well then send me mine and the shipping and ill jet shrug it off as a loss he says he will emt it right away and goes on to say he loves his zoos and will order again from me right away

Payment never did come and he stopped posting literally that moment , tqlked to a guy who knows him and he's still hanging around here

Another lesson learned

Well If this story is true, which I'm sure it is.. I see no reason to allow this person to remain on this site. These are the kinds of people that need to be gone and not return.

I remember an "all" out war about a skimmer that was loaned and never returned and then the guy tried to sell it on Buy/Sell.

be nice to get a user name so others are aware to stay away from this a$$hole

Well, if any of this activity happens on the board, we will take "corrective" measures.
Please do report anything like this to us, and if they're scamming people here, we will show them the door.

I've been thinking we can respond to a for sale thread in public about our dealings, since canreef has no other solution right now.

I trust how I conduct myself is above and beyond what normal people will do. What I want to know is who is wasting my time, who doesn't deserve this treatment.

I've shipped out live rock and hardware
received shipped items

because all those dealings went o.k. - I'd want other people to know I'm a good seller and that I've dealt with other good sellers. It doesn't eliminate anything, but it definitely reduces it

The problem with any type of review is getting all the facts, all the time. What about the shipment that went to the wrong house? What if it hadn't been recovered? Then it's a he said/she said argument, with someone getting labelled as bad to deal with when they did nothing wrong.
We just can't have that even once. Get paid before you ship and insure the shipment. Then everyone is protected.
The only way to deal with problems is contact us for direction, and then if a warning is warranted, we can post it.

benefit of the doubt , for all i know in situation one is he could of had some sort of life changing problem that left him short changed that i was never told, ive been in those boats before and it isnt alot of money( $100) so i just cut my losses


second scenario i blame myself for rushing and i knew better to send stuff out without some sort of payment , this was the risk i took and figured it would turn out good , im sure i could have hounded for some time after or kicked up a fuss but same thing i cut my losses and for me its a youll need me before i need you scene for both.

its sad that guy number one doesnt come to the store and its sad that both members stopped posting the day this happened when they were very active members before , journals etc.

its a buyer beware and a seller bewars world , and when it comes to livestock it gets even worse

example:

a while ago i ordered some coral from ontario, first box showed up fried from the heatpaks and such a small box , replacement order was sent out and this one also didnt do well , after sending some frags out to the guy for a trade plus replacements that didnt make it the second time, i got my third box..... i did get the replacements but no trades for the coral i sent the previous week.

now this situation actually turned out great cause i now know theres not much to gain on either side , hes out three times the coral and im out some pieces and extra shipping charges plus some frags i sent.

we chatted and actually laughed a bit we boith didnt really think it through and no matter how we did it we were both going to be out , so we just laughed and said it happens , this was acvtually a great buy and im doing another when ever i can....itsd alot to do with how both soides handle it.

my new policy is i replace a full DOA order and cover all costs which ive never had to do yet including a package that was lost to bc for 6 days , and if theres any single doas i replace and shipping is split.

as far as saying peples names and such i dont think thats fair , or the right thing to do , its a world where every purchase and financial decision has to be taken with caution and at the same time allow for some risk , not all will turn out great but ive sent maybe 300 boxes out in my past and ive been burned by less then a few and i always try to fix any problems that may be caused on my side as the shipper , its what i would expect if iwas the customer and what i do as the seller:)


with shipping livestock if thers any hold ups theres a loss .

cost me about $80 to send a box to ontario , so if a guy orders $300 worth of coiral and shipping is free theres only one attemt to make a profit thats small , if theres replacement then the loss is larger then the profit was to begin with , as a seller we learn to minimize loss to cover our own ass and to make sure customers are happy.

to this day the best corals i ever got have been shipped , prob from poeple i dont know and even right now dropping a couple thousand on a us company for goods that may never even get sent lol.....risk

cheers

denny

i agree it would never happen as then someone has to play judge and gather facts which is tough when two poeple live across the country from each other , sometimes people blow the handle before the other guy has a chance to reply( happened to me , sorry guy!!!!)

best thing we can do as a community is buy with caution , business or not things may work out or not work out as i said its often that it does work out or theres a reason for things that arnt known.

i honestly dont think anyone comes here to scam or take advantage , its more of a bad decision scenarios that lead to dead ends.

I participate in another forum that has an extensive b/s/t portion - it's actually the reason that most of us had joined the community. We use a v-trader system, that after each transaction you can leave a rating and a comment. I know others have mentioned this, so I just wanted to chime in that it works pretty well. If everyone leaves a comment ("transaction was good, but was shipped to wrong address" or whatever the case may be), then it's buyer beware and everyone can make an informed decision.

guys and gals - just like any review, there are good and bad. If something "out of the ordinary" happens and provides a negative review towards someone, and yet the person still have other positive reviews - dealt with reefers I might know, I'll deal with them.

to consider protecting the innocent person who rightfully did something, but accused of not doing it - as apposed to helping point out the real scammers..... doesn't seem to be a priority I can really wrap my head around

Denny the guy your talking about has a whole different story but that's between you and him. I sent the same guy something with the agreement to "pay me when you can." I didn't have a problem at all getting paid. Maybe it depends in the deal :noidea:

i bet lol which one?

i guess thats how it goes theres always two sides , who wants to say " i burned that guy" or would admit it if a deal is pending with you?? with the second instance it was admitted it wasnt my fault and still didnt get paid , in fact and exact words " your stuff was great but im not paying for the other guys corals" for the second instance i think it was more of the other half of the order through the vendor , in any case there were lots of " ill send money " from both sides but nothing ever came from it and in the second case i covered all costs on all sides up front and on a promise.:)

i still have all the emails if it really came down to it for both cases as i get email notifications from canreef for pms and both instances were dealt through pm here , so theres def an easy way to tell one from the other lol ;)

i guess be lucky you got paid lol

if it helps ive never met the second guy in person its all been through emails only :)

first guy i know and met several times now and lives here in calgary , ive seen him from time to time but like i said it was $100 so said screw it :)

A little off topic, But Hey Denny can I borrow a hundred bucks!

dude you still never paid me for that tank i gave you lol :smile::smile::smile: