What else can I do?
 

So the short version of this story is that I had a bad cyano or some type of algae problem. It looked brown and snotty with bubbles. The bulbs I was using were over a year old.

So what I've done so far to try and get my tank looking top notch again is I've changed all 6 bulbs on my t5 fixture. I've added cheato. I did a round of chemiclean about 4 days ago. Took all the rocks out, rinsed them in some fresh salt water and scrubbed them. Did the 20% water change and have my skimmer running again with carbon and gfo.

I've also added some sand back into my tank since I was running it bare bottom and added a conch and another snail (like a huge nassarius snail).

Tank parameters.
Sg 1.025
Temp 79
Mag 1400
Dkh 9.0
Cal 380
Fish are a yellow tang, coral beauty and clown.

Here are some pics of the algae coming back a bit again.

Powerhead with the bubbles and brown algae.
http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/a.../photo3-14.jpg

Finger leather opening up again but has some brown algae on it.
http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/a.../photo2-22.jpg

Duncan which has been closed for about two days starting to open again. You can see a big string of the algae.
http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/a.../photo1-22.jpg

what are your nitrates and phosphates at??

could be dinos , google dinoflaggelates(im the worse for spelling lol) could be what your dealing with:)

good luck!

Nitrates and phosphates are nearly 0

I really hope they aren't Dino's.

sure looks like it to me. if your phos and nitrates are near zero you shouldnt be getting that much algae.

running media??

i would start looking into dinos as crappy as it sounds:(

Could it be calothrix?

I really lack for clean up crew in my tank. I have one brittle star, about 5 Astraea snails, a conch I just added and a huge nassarius looking thing. I would count my cleaner shrimp but it seems to eat fish and coral food.

I am running gfo in a phosban reactor and just added cheato.

I'm thinking of doing another water change tomorrow and seeing how things go. Let the cheato and new lights have a chance to work.

The article says that snails can die from Dino's and I've never had any snails die and I've been dealing with this for a couple months now. It's just recently that I've started to really try and fix my tank with the steps I listed above.

where did you get the sand or was it new??

I had the sand from before when the problem was bad. I took it out a few months ago, rinsed the crap (literally) out of it and it sat dry until a few days ago when I rinsed it again, and let it soak in some to/di before I added some yesterday. I haven't added even a quarter of what was in there before.

something seems off to me when i look at the pics every shot has algae of some kind growing. you have new bulbs , good water,running gfo and have a cuc.....your bioload is low and no nutrients......

i would think your old "bad sand" is still bad , probably releasing stuff you couldnt wash out enough of.

I only added it yesterday though.

I'm thinking I may have to be patient which is hard for me. I'm really tempted to do another round of chemiclean.

Here is another pck of a rock with the algae.

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/a...se/photo-8.jpg

Did chemi clean do anything.

I wonder if your rocks are leaching

The chemiclean definitely broke up the algae and it was really easy to blast it off with a turkey baster. Interesting theory about leeching rock cuz they are all starting to get this crap on them.

I feel your pain.. im dealing with the crap too in my RSM. Mine is my own fault tho. Ive been using a phosphate binder with awesome results in my big tank by doing a couple of drops daily directly into my filter socks. Well since i had a LITTLE patch of the brown bubbly in the Red Sea Max I decide to dose the RSM too.. so some drops directly into the tank for a couple of days then whoa! Now i have brown bubbly, green and red algea everywhere.. the sand bed is growing brown clumps!! I totally spaced that i have a POS skimmer, no sump and no filter socks to remove the phosphate binder. I think i have very successfully bound all my phosphate to my rock and sand :twised:

Ive done waterchanges 3 weeks in a row of 60%, blasted and basted rock, suctioned the sand and it isnt doing anything. Im on day 2 of a 3 day complete blackout. Im feeling pretty guilty of my fishes tho, so i think i will unwrap the tank tonight and feed the fish with just the available room light. Tomorrow the plan is to blast the tank and stir up as much crap as i can, do a 60% water change, set up my UV and run the diatom filter for a couple of days..If this doesnt help on to plan C.. which i dont have yet!

Do you have a pic so we can compare algaes? Good luck with the system.

My corals are definitely doing better right now with the recent changes. I have zoas that have been closed for 2 months opening for the first time.

I'm gonna do a phosphate check with my Hanna and test the tank water and the output from the reactor.

Phosphate test:
Tank water is .02
Water from reactor is .00

Dino's Kill it with fire!or peroxide:biggrin:

That could definitely be dinoflagellates. I've had success treating by elevating pH with kalkwasser drip/doser. Siphoning it out helps quite a lot as well, but you have to keep on it. Expect that if you are on the ball 100% that it may still take you several weeks to get it under control.

Are your lights out?

I was measuring 0.03 for phosphates when the lights were on. When I tested after my lights had been off for a couple of hours my phosphate was 0.26.

I'm assuming that as the cyano receded at night that it released the phosphates back into the water column.

I very conservatively dosed some Phosbuster Pro and changed my ROWAphos, and now the tank is measuring 0 at night (except for the 48 hours when I had my fluid reactors shut off for Chemiclean).

If it is cyano, you may need to treat the tank again. Did any of this stuff die when you used it? Did you turn your lights out?

When you did your 48 hour water change did you siphon all of the gunk out? I siphoned everything out with airline hose, and while it took forever, I got an amazing amount of garbage out of the tank with very good control. There was a lot more crap in my tank's sandbed than I realized.

I'm not sure if dinos are gram negative or not, so I don't know if Chemiclean would work on it.

Edit: according to this article, the bacteria in dinos may be gram negative: http://www.sb-roscoff.fr/Phyto/Repri...JPhycol_02.pdf

If that's the case, I would expect to have seen some negative reaction to the Chemiclean from it.

Hmmm interesting....

I will check the phosphates first thing in the morning, I do notice it gets worse as the day goes on.
I siphoned out a lot of the gunk for sure. Also I had no sand bed in the tank when I did it.
I did not have the lights off for the treatment.

Thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate it. I'm really working hard to get my tank tip top this month.

What kind of bulbs do you have?

In my digging, I discovered that Cree cool white LEDs cover the spectrum that cyano thrives in. I had my cano problem mostly under control, and then I switched out my t5s (2-Blue+, 1-Coral+, and 1-Purple+) for LEDs (Sol Blues). The cyano exploded over the course of a few hours, and I can only assume it was the spectrum provided by the cool white LEDs that did it.

I have t5s
2x ati 12000k
2x ati 20000k
1x ati 420 actinic
1x kZ Fiji purple

I just put them in 4 days ago in an attempt to get rid of the algae problem. The previous bulbs were over a year old.

I don't think any of those bulbs should be an issue. It is the shorter wavelengths that cyano likes.

http://www.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_37/issue_2/0434.pdf

Oh. Here's a FW planted tank article on cyano that isn't as dry as the previous one.

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/alga...=Cyanobacteria

Ha thanks, I tried reading the last one and didn't make it very far.

So being gram negative you think chemiclean will help kill Dino's?

If dinos are gram negatve then Chemiclean should kill it (unless it is resistant . . . Which bacteria can become). Chemiclean only kills gram negative bacteria. Gram positive bacteria (like your tank's biofilter) are unaffected by it.

The suggestion that dinos are gram negative seemed to be little more than an educated guess. Since you saw a reaction from whatever it is that you've got growing in there, I would guess it is gram negative: whether it be cyano or dinos.

I personally would try it again, providing the kivestock handled it well, but I'd give it a little bit of time or do a couple more big water changes before doing so.

Dinos are a cyst,not a bacterium.

I dosed chemiclean twice in 48 hours on my small tank last year with no I'll effects. Just be prepared for lots of water changes. I have no idea what type of algae you are battling so can not say whether this will work. Have you tried a blackout?

But, they apparently incorporate bacteria into their colonial form, and have a symbiotic relationship with it. That bacteria is thought to be gram negative. That's in the article on dinos that I posted earlier. In killing their bacteria, it may be possible to kill, or damage, the dinos.

What are your thoughts on running UV? I've never used one.

Makes sense:redface:and that does explain why the antibiotic makes it appear to disappear for a while.

It's to bad we can't keep Crassostrea Virginica (eastern oyster)in a reef tank....or can we?

i dont think chemiclean is going to help , i mean you did it once right and look what your left with.

have you looked into dosing h2o2 to your tanks alongside with blackouts, seems to be working for some folks on RC.


personally i would start treating for dinos and forget the chemiclean.

im almost positive your dealing with dinos.

possibly look into adding/dripping kalk or limewater and getting your ph rasied and stable.

good luck!!

Just out of curiosity, how old is your tank?

Tank is almost 2 years old. But has been moved. I'm not thinking diatoms.

I tested phosphates this morning with lights out and they were .07. So they were definitely up from during the day.

So my plan is to do another water change this morning. Wait a few days, do another round of chemiclean with the ensuing water change. The box does say you may need multiple treatments.

If that doesn't kill whatever I'm dealing with then we'll start down the Dino route.

Also I run my cheato light at the same time as my main tank, should I run it at opposite times?

When u decided to finally try peroxide go to a horticulture store. You can get it there at 35%

Thanks I was wondering where to get the stronger stuff.

Just be aware that Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp do not tolerate H202 exposure well: they are one of a few "intolerants." You didn't specify what kind of cleaner shrimp you have.

I routinely use 3% for 10 minute dips (1:10 H202 to tankwater), and I've had very good success with it. For dipping corals I would stick with the lower concentration. If you'll be dipping your rocks, then I would use the 35% as it will stretch farther.

It is a scarlet skunk cleaner, had to google that.

I'm not going down the h2o2 route yet but will post if I do. If you dip your rocks in it won't it kill all the beneficial bacteria as well?

im not talking about dipping though im talking about dosing straight to your system.

along with this low temps and a lengthly blackout are required.....some are doing up to 10 days.....coral has to go for this.