ICH!!!!!
 

I suddenly noticed today that the six line wrasse that I introduced few days back got ich!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There no mark on the body but there are white spots all over the fins and tail. It does occasionally scratches its body against the rock but it is eating like a beast!

I heard that sixlines generally get ich when introduced to a new tank (kind of like black ghost knife fish) but is very ich-resistant and will heal itself.

I know my tank has ich (I think almost every tank has some ich; its a part of nature and they only attack once the host gets weak enough; please do correct me if I am wrong). And since my tank is only a 20 gallon, I really am not that patient to QT every fish for like 2 months (:redface:).

So does anyone has any experience regarding ich and sixlines? Heard that mandarines and sixlines are like ich-proof but this really got me down :(

Actually no, there are a lot of tanks without ick, all of those who do a proper quarantine don't have ick. I have 2 tanks and don't have ick in either.

A tank without ick is only possible when one do a proper quarantine and treat when necessary. There is no secret to it.

Goo luck with your problem. Being infested by parasites is not part of nature because in nature the fish have all the ocean to avoid those parasites. In our tanks with the restrained space, it is parasites haven.

No fish is ich proof. Mandarins can have it has well and they can die from it as well. It infect the gills and mandarins do have gills. They have thick mucous on their body but the gills are all the same as other fish.

Especially in a 20 gallons tank (kind of small for a 6 line) the fish don't stand much chance if not treated because with such small amount of water (parasite concentration) and such small amount of space to swim (stress) it will have a hard time fighting this parasite off.

I would treat with hyposalinity with a good refractometer for 6 weeks in a QT and get rid of ich once and for all.

you are wrong :) It's possible to erradicate ich from a tank if you understand the life cycle of marine ich.

mandarin and wrasse have thick mucus layer and they frequently shred their mucus layer. That's why they seem to be hard to get ich. Hard, but not impossible.

Thanks for correcting me :D I actually thought that its like a part of the ecosystem like cyanobacteria and hence they persists even after they are eradicated with the "fishless for 8 weeks" method. Like you know, life always finds its way :P

Anyway, so since my tank has ich (I am pretty sure a green clown goby bought it in the system -__-), if I keep the fishes healthy, they shouldn't have problem right?

And about the sixlines, will it heal itself over time? I hear mixed reviews on the internet and hence was looking if someone has a similar experience.

Yah I do agree that the parasite concentration is going to be high but I think 20 gallon, particularly the long one, is not small for sixline. I have loads of caves (which is, as far as I know, more important for a happy sixline since they love exploring) and the length is also fine for it. Obviously the bigger the better but I think 20L wont stress the fish.

Once again, I might be wrong since I am all new to this hobby. I am just using my logic to see the extend of what's right and whats wrong :razz:

Garlic, fresh garlic, lots of garlic, put fresh garlic in a blender and puree it, strain out the juice and add it directly to the tank, also soak their food with it. It will boost the fishes immune system and keep them eating.
Make the tank smell like garlic.
Good luck.

Your six line should be fine in your aquarium. Nano Reef has stocking guidelines and, while they may be considered controversial by non-nano reefers, they are what I follow for my tanks (I consider my 40B a nano), though I've got one fish in there that would get me lynched by them.

http://www.nano-reef.com/fish/?fish=3

Understand that when they indicate that a six line can be housed in a 10 gallon, it is the only fish in there. I think they recommend four fish at the maximum for a 20 gallon.

Garlic does seem to be a popular display system treatment, and despite the lack of scientific evidence that it works, there is a huge amount of anecdotal evidence that it does.

I was a non-believer then I got ich in my display(only time I introduced a fish without quarantine), was told to use garlic, was skepticle but tried it anyway and it WORKED, had zero losses and ich never returned.:biggrin:

Thanks Shelly for supporting my nano :D You have always been very supportive and inspirational :D

This is what I was looking for: someone with ich in the tank but doesn't get it :P

So what should I do is make garlic paste and put it directly into the tank? Like the paste itself? And what about water change?

I whipped up a few cloves of fresh garlic and sqeezed it thru a coffee filter to axtract the juice, added about a tsp of it to the tank, soak the food in it when feeding, did that every day for a few days then just soak the food.
I now add a couple drops of kent garlic extreme to the food every day.

OH! and time is of the essence, git r done

Great! Thanks :D

Mixed mysis shrimp with garlic paste and the fishes went nuts (well my fishes always get nuts with whatever they can eat :P). Wrasse actually started munching on the garlic particles itself!!!!! Even stole the piece of meat that was given to the torch. Poor torch :(

Hope the garlic treatment will work :) I love my wrasse!

Garlic works great for ick even though there is those that reside near the east coast that claim it is bogus. Kent Garlic Extreme is a great product and every meal I feed my fish is soaked in it. Theres also been debates that it is hard on the fishes livers but i've been feeding garlic for years and have'nt heard nor seen any complaints from my fish. But i'm no fish whisperer. IMO trying to catch a fish that is infected with ick causes more stress than anything and the ick gets worse. I'm sure a certain bullheaded member will be quoting this post but there is alot of people that swear that garlic works and I am one of them. I love the ignore user list. I'm sure i'm on a few members list too. HAHA

+1. According to my logic too, catching a fish stress it even more, not to mention about putting it in a smaller tank to treat with medication for weeks! Its even more funny when tank police doesn't attest a guy who is treating a tang in a 10 gallon tank for couple of months but will be all over the guy who is keeping a tang in 20 gallon temporarily for few weeks.

I have started dosing garlic in the food and have just finish feeding it (I mix mysis + flake + garlic paste). I will be getting a seachem's garlic very soon.

Any suggestion on how long to keep the food soak in garlic? Because I mix it, let it sit for a few minutes and then let it go off in the tank. Is that alright or do I have to get it settled for a few hours before dropping it in the tank?

Well I make my own food and it's enough for about a year and I use a 30ml bottle of the mentioned brand in my food batch. It is a frozen food and I also use a couple of drops of it while the food is defrosting. I dont really think there has to be a set time on how long it soaks in it.

Great. Thanks :D

So the trick is to have garlic in the food that's it right?

huh...what do you mean putting it in a small tank? it is already in a small tank.

20 gallons is a proper tank for treating a fish that size and coming from a 20 gallons already, it would feel right at home.

It is said that ick goes to a few generations and then if not re-introduced just exhaust itself. I think I read something like 10 generations. I don't know if it is true because there is some people that I know who have ick for years and it comes and it goes, but I have also read people having it disapear from their tank after some time without treating.

BAHAHA that did'nt take long. I dont know what the last post says but yes the trick is to have it in the food.

Sorry for the misunderstanding but I didn't say about my fish being put into a hospital tank. I was talking more generally like taking a fish from a 65gallon to a 10 or 20 gallon hospital tank.

And from your post, I think you are not very fond of nanos :)

There are people, like me, who doesn't have the provision of keeping big tanks (in terms of money and space) and hence nanos are there and they are no big of a difference other than the limited stocking list.

And please don't attack me with the "money" thing because I once had someone attack me with "if you can't get a $50 refractometer, you are in the wrong hobby" because I believe there's more into this hobby than just money and that is dedication. BTW I do have a refrac now :P

Thanks :D

YOu assume too much and too fast. I do have a nano and love them, just that I love my fish just as much so I make sure they are free of parasites for the rest of their lifes.

I think it is our responsability to make sure the fish in our aquariums are healthy and do to what ever is necessary to keep them that way and give them the best life possible.

I have 2 tank raised clownfish in my nano and quite a few bubble tip anemones and they are happy. Clownfish make excellent fish for nano because in the wild they don't go very far from their anemony, so no big deal if they don't have a large tank.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y.../103_1583s.jpg

That's a nice nano you got there :D

Yes I totally agree that it is our responsibility to take care of them to the fullest. But it is also a part of nature to get sick occasionally just like humans. No matter how clean your house is and no matter how much you take care of yourself, you will occasionally get the nasty stuffs like flu and cold. Its just a part of life and the ecosystem :cry:

Sure, but when my dog get flea I treat it, I don't leave it full of fleas and let it scratch itself to bloody spots.

Since the dog (or fish) cannot treat themselves it is our duty to do it.

I do not consider parasites to be anything like a cold or a virus. It is easy enough to treat for parasites and be done with it for good.

8 weeks of empty tank...kinda hard :(

And another 4-6weeks of quarantine when adding new fishes....harder :(

Well said daniella3d ...

mrhasan, if it's any consolation, we still enjoy our fish when they are in quarantine ... it's even easier to study them because there is little aquascaping.

One of my favourite savings for marine aquariums, "good stuff happens slow, bad stuff happens fast".

Yah I guess I will have to set up a quarantine tank and transfer the fishes over there and leave the tank sit for 8 weeks. In the mean time, I can add corals to the tank right?

What condition are the fish in right now? How are things progressing? Have you started with garlic? What else do you have in he tank (corals and inverts)?

Beautiful tank Daniella

I am going through a battle of ICH as well. Mine all started with a blue hippo tang that I did not quarantine when I got him. He was fine for a week or so until he jumped out of the tank while I was trying to rescue him from the overflow. I did rescue him from the floor and he was fine for a day, then ICH took hold of him. My wife and I tried to catch him for at least two hours but couldn't catch him for the life of us. Two days later I noticed ICH on 3 other fish. I have already been soaking mysis and flakes in Kent Garlic and running a UV sterilizer (at proper flow rate).

I have corals and cleaner shrimp so unwilling to do tank wide hypo or copper.

So I went to the LFS and the guy there recommended this Herbatana stuff. It's all natural and reef safe. That was 8 days ago and the ICH hasn't spread past the fish that already had it. But the fish that did have it before are getting worse. I lost the blue Hippo tang yesterday, and I'm sure I'll lose the Flame angel today or tomorrow.

From now on I will QT everything with coppermine. As for what to do now... well I guess just hope UV + Garlic and Herbatana minimizes losses. I would consider moving my coral and shrimp to a seperate tank while I do hypo, but not sure what hypos effect is on my 210 lbs of live rock :cry:

I got a clown, firefish, sixline wrasse, cleaner shrimp, cuc, torch coral, some mushrooms and a really big feather duster. My sixline got ich only and it seems to be a little better today (the ich from the body disappeared a bit).

I started garlic 2 days back but it turned my water cloudy so I am just feeding them garlic enhanced flake now. Everyone is eating like crazy.

I was going through this article:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...ral_pagesid=78

and this line caught my attention:

"Cryptocaryon is a fully ciliated protozoan that is present in all saltwater environments"

Since this is an article in liveaquaria, I believe it is correct to some extent (atleast approved by Dr. Foster and Smith).

Comments?

I'm thinking they mean natural environments?

Not sure but here's another line:

"Most wild fish are exposed to low levels of this parasite but are able to effectively fight off the infection without becoming seriously ill. In contrast, due to a relatively small volume of water and a concentrated population of fish, the number of Cryptocaryon has the opportunity to explode in the home aquarium."

Yes, I think that's well known. What are you trying to determine?

Same debate that I started with :P :redface:

"Every tank has this parasite to some extent" :idea:

Well, probably, yes. But only because the keeper hasn't gone to the effort to remove it. It can be removed, although typically it costs the person all their fish first, as it did for me. With proper quarantine, you can have a parasite free tank.
The question might be, can my fish be fine even if I have ich in the tank? Again, probably. I've had ich outbreaks that I've cleared up with garlic, no fish losses, and no sign again of ich for years. So yes, your tank can be ok with ich present, assuming the fish are healthy and stress free? Does that mean you shouldn't do more? No, not really.
As it was stated, it is our responsibility to do our best. Most of don't, for many reasons. Time, space, money, laziness, lack of concern, etc..
All depends on what you want, what risk you're willing to live with, and whether you want to chance killing all your fish, and then replacing them. That last part cost me about $2000 :)
I'm not willing to do that again, so I go through the trouble, or if I don't want to go through it, I don't buy more fish.

Only "money" is the concern for me :P

I am thinking of starting a quarantine tank. I plan one adding, if possible, only two more fishes but not any time soon. Depending on the scenario, I might even have to go through leaving the tank fishless for 2 months. That would be the hardest part just to keep few fishes since I am limited to a 20 gallon tank.

In the end, you need to decide what is right for you.

You've pretty much reached your stocking limit for fish. You could maybe add another little fish, or a couple of really little fish. In the event you do not eradicate ich from your display, you risk infecting any new fish you add. If you won't be adding any new fish, that isn't an issue.

You could let the fish fight it off. Many fish do this successfully. In the event something stressful were to happen, the fish could weaken and become susceptible to the ich again. But, If you upgrade to a larger system and move your fish into it, they're going to bring the ich into the new system.

Garlic is really your only option for treating in your display with the other livestock you have, and anecdotal evidence does support the treatment for boosting the immunity of fish to ich.

So, can you live with ich in your system? That's for you to decide for yourself. No one else can (or should) do that for you. And, (while this may sound callous) you don't have any rare or overly costly fish in there: they could be replaced quite easily if they all died from it.

Haha yah :P I try to stick to below $30 type fishes :P The filtration system along worth more than the fishes themselves and had people (who are not in this hobby) saying you spent that much just to keep a nemo?! :P