Warning to Profilux Users
 

To those using profilux be aware of the following two issues you may or may not be already know of.

1. Float sensor expires after 2 years weather in use or not. Apparently float sensors should be replaced after two years or they can and are know to fail in the on position. While this is not documented it's treated as something customers already should know. Keep in mind even if the sensor remains unopened in original packaging it can still expire in the same time period.
   
2. If an error/alarm is triggered which in turn disables a socket like say the ATO water supply it will automatically reset if the power is temporarily cut. The alarm is not stored in memory. So for example if your float becomes stuck or somehow fails in the on position your maximum on time may not save your tank. This I found very disturbing but after consulting profilux support it seems they are aware of it and fail to see an issue as apparently it's never caused an issue before (pretty sure NASA said something similar about o-rings before :wink:). It may just be me but I kind of think it's a significant flaw that people should at least be aware of.

Anyways while it would be rare for these two issues to act together during a vacation when for whatever reason power was cut several times within a day it can happen.

From this
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...1/coral_11.jpg

To this
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...2011/crash.jpg

Really not looking to point blame what so ever, obviously there are some things I could have implemented or done differently to avoid this but just never saw the need to do so given these two things were not something I was aware of nor are they documented. My intentions here are only to make others ware if these issues. My initial attempt at making profilux aware of the issue didn't go overly well as I attempted to find reasoning for the automatic reset and assurance something would be done to fix it, rather I think they concluded I screwed up by replacing a worn (but working) sensor with what I believed to be new seeing how I purchased it a couple years back but never used it.

Also please, I'm not looking for advice. I know you all have it and would love to chime in but not now, maybe later. Thanks for looking!

****ty..my worst nightmare...

:surprise: OMG!!

Oh man, my heart breaks for you. No words......

Computers......I dont trust um.

... :eek:

Thanks for the heads up.

keep your head high man .. sorry for your losses

A real heart breaker to see all the beautiful corals are turning out like that.
Very sorry sphelps.

So much for "Germans make good stuff"

profilux
 

Read your thread over on the support site all I can say is wow total destruction hard to believe modern tech would let this happen. I leave my tank alone for many days at a time , and i worry all the time the rolling black outs wacked my apex, lucky i was around to catch it and my ato i s a stand alone , it use to be run by the apex but always made me nervous I was thinking on getting one of these maybe I should keep the apex goin for a little longer sorry for your loss hopefully you can some how find a way to rebuild .

Thanks for the info and so sorry for your loss.

That is my worst nightmare.

Cheers,
Tim

Sorry for your losses Steve.

well Steve i can mail you some frgs of what i have if you want I don't have much not like you have.

Sorry to hear of the crash.

How much top up water do you figure ended up in the system?
What was the final salinity?

I'm thinking around 80-100 gallons, salinity was around 1.015 I think, not sure exactly as a friend of mine noticed the issue before I returned and increased the salinity to more acceptable levels, unfortunately it wasn't soon enough.

I feel your pain. Everytime I go on vacation, I cringe at what I might come back to. Sorry for the loss.

The float sensor packaging includes a warning about expiration? Does any INCLUDED documentation mention the first sensor expiration? If not, then the manufacturer has no leg to stand on here.

Sorry for your losses.

No it does not although profilux support claims they have mentioned something regarding replacement of sensors somewhere on RC and they seem to feel that's adequate. I had the original sensor working for close to 5 years without issue and only recently replaced it as it was looking pretty worn. The new sensor failed within months and apparently according to profilux is a result from it expiring while it remained in original packaging for close to 2 years. This to me would suggest cheap components or poor quality control which goes against Profilux claims of high quality products. However as far as I'm concerned the main issue is the automatic reset, sensors can fail or get stuck so you can't rely on them, the back up alarm should deactivate the ATO and it should stay inactive until manually reset. This is how it's documented so I would have assumed the automatic reset was something Profilux was not aware of and perhaps just a firmware issue, however support staff seemed fully aware of it but don't agree there is an issue. Rather after some insulting "very obvious" conclusions (which they have now removed all trace of) they pointed blame toward user error and bragged about unparalleled support while offering warranty replacement of an obviously cheap sensor. Would have been nice if they recognized these two issues as something more serious and at least made some kind of attempt to let other users know.

For those interested in a semi-solution to help prevent this failure you can set your ATO to not always be active and use a timer to control when it can activate. This is easily done within level sensor settings. Set the timer to activate once a day for just slightly longer than it would need to for worst case evaporation. This essentially replaces the max on time so you set that to 0 to deactivate or still use it how you see fit. For example you could set max on time to your evaporation limit of say 5min while setting the timer to activate for 5-1/2 min. This way you still get an alarm and deactivation if you want it. Otherwise you you can deactivate the max on time and set timer to activate for 5min. The advantage here if you do have a float failure and you're away from home top off water will still be added daily at a rate just slightly over the needed amount but will likely take several days before an issue would surface. While if the alarm feature is used your top off remains deactivated until reset which could also cause issues depending how long it goes unnoticed and how long your tank can run without top off supply.

With either approach the tank will be protected against the fluke occurrence of constant power outages during float failure.

Of course you can also limit the amount of fresh water supply available which most people do but for those people who use a large supply to hold the tank over for an extended or infinite period of time this feature should prove useful.

Sorry for your loses. If in anyway I can help you out with restarting please do not hesitate to ask. I have a good selection of sps corals that I can frag you a piece of each and as long as you pay for shipping I am willing to ship free of charge.

There is a reason why a lot of us including dealers that do not like to deal with certain supplier/s. When you are purchasing something they seem to be your best friend and once something goes wrong all of sudden you become a free loader. It's never the product but the end user's fault!

Anyways let me know.

Thanks to everyone for the generous offers, I've received lots of messages and replies that I'm truly grateful for. At this time I just want to focus on cleaning up the mess and restoring water chemistry which will probably take some time. After that I want to focus on fixing and identifying addition issues while adding more monitoring features that will serve useful during future vacations and travels. Then I will consider a path forward regarding livestock but this will probably be far in the future as I have many other pressing matters to deal with and I've already invested far too much money and time into this tank this year already.

Ugh, that second pic is hard to look at Steve. :( Thanks for the heads up on the controller issue.

That is inadequate. I don't go on RC, and I know hundreds of reefers who don't use forums at all. If there is a "known expiry" the item should be contained in a bag with an expiration sticker (or sticker on box).

I consider this to be a major flaw, and definitely a huge overlook. Do you know if other controllers have the same flaw? If other controllers also have this flaw maybe that is why Profilux feels it is a non-issue.

I'm not familiar with other controllers so I can't comment

p3
 

i have ordered many float switches through neptune's recomended supplier and not once have they mentioned an expire date, only to examine the float portion for leaks and that most floats fail open, so set them up for closed operation if possible. sooo...........

Well, well, well!!!! After reading this about the ATO, i now understand why my top up problem was happening!!! :sad::sad::sad: (could not find MAD)
My significant other, Shane, has taken a job out of town and left me in charge of our 210g reef and 4 other smaller saltie tanks. I know enough to hopefully keep all up and running. The first day he is gone the sump fills level right to the very rim, almost overflowing. I think maybe a fish has jumped into the overflow and plugged the water flow. i dunno. Another member comes over to have a look, he thinks maybe the ato, but i say Oh no that is programmed by the Profilux. He suggests that i manually fill the water as needed. Anyway water slowly goes down, i keep an eye on things, talk with Shane, he says it has run flawlessly for 1yr and wonders maybe the water level in the ato bucket was higher then he normally has and that is what is causing this. I continue to keep an eye on the level that he has marked, just above the senor, ato seems to be doing its job and if not i add manually. Then yesterday am i take a look everything is fine, i come down to go outside and water is flowing out all over the floor!!!!! The brute bucket is completely empty. I pull the plugs connecting the ato and start cleanup. Even empting most out of sump. Salt level is down a bit,will raise that, but fish and corals ok. Luckly i was home. He will not be too happy knowing that it was the Profilux malfuctioning that was the problem.
I can not believe that Profilux was aware of this and did nothing, they should be found liable for the destruction in your (any) tank. These units are not cheap, price wise anyway, and people put their trust in the name.
So sorry to see the devastion in your tank that was caused by this product.

Stanky, you might be looking at a bit of a different issue than I'm discussing here. I think you may experiencing a more typical issue of the float becoming temporarily stuck and your max on time is set too high.

First check your float switch:

• Using the 5 button section on your profilux controller do the following:
• Press the left direction arrow button
• Scroll through the options with the up or down arrow buttons until you see "level"
• Press the center or enter button
• Again scroll through the options until you see "diagnostic"
• Press the center or enter button
  
• Now you will see a number "1" and a number "2" each with either a "-" or "X" next to them. Your float should be corresponding to # 1 with "-" meaning on and "X" meaning off. Moving the float up and down should switch between these. If moving the float shows no response then you likely have a completely failed float.

Next check your max on time

• Repeat step above until you enter the level menu again but instead of diagnostic scroll and enter "sensor settings"
• It'll ask what sensor to either, using up and down arrow buttons pick the number that was previously responding which should be 1
• Next select "auto top off"
• Next it will ask "auto top off always" answer yes for now
• Next it will ask "reaction time", 10 seconds is probably a good number for now
• Next it will ask "Max on time" this is the key, what does it say now? Given you're using a pump and bucket type ATO 1 min is probably all you need if that. You can determine this number better in the next step
• Next it will ask "Aut. error reset", select no
• Next it will ask "Input reverse", select no
• Next it will ask "Save now", select yes

Now the tricky part.

• You need to determine an appropriate max on time for the top off. Something that's long enough to top the tank off but not long enough to cause issues. Plug the top off pump into a powered socket and time how long it takes to pump water from the bottom of the float to the top of the float/ Should be a good bench mark for a max on time.
• Once an appropriate time is established repeat the previous step and update the max on time.

Sorry to see this thread... and sorry for your losses Steve. :sad:

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of us all. I agree with Mindy as well, posting a statement about replacing sensors on RC only is not acceptable. I haven't been on RC for ages myself, and never would have known.

Good tip about putting the ATO on a timed setting as well.


Ryan

I think this thread should be a sticky thread, because it will help someone to prevent this kind of disaster for using this controller, or planning to get one in the future. Like me, I was looking to buy a used one for myself, but now I have changed my mind about it after reading this. Thanks sphelps.

That after pic is devastating to see. So sorry to read about this. I don't have a lot of stuff but you're welcome to anything you need when the time comes.

This might be a dumb question, but how does a float sensor expire in a sealed from the factory bag? I understand perfectly how salt water gums up ones in use. But I'm just not understanding how a piece of plastic and metal goes bad just sitting there.

I have all sorts of computerized equipment that sits around for years, and years, and years and it doesn't expire. How does GHL/Profilux run a manufacturing business if you can't inventory your product. I doubt they are making float valves "on-demand". What if someone buys a float valve that sat in their warehouse for 3 years...

It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me either, I'm not entire sure how they can keep track of dealer inventory to prevent the sale of old sensors. Even if inventory of such products is extremely low unless everything is properly rotated there is no way one could insure such things.

[quote=sphelps;733669]Stanky, you might be looking at a bit of a different issue than I'm discussing here. I think you may experiencing a more typical issue of the float becoming temporarily stuck and your max on time is set too high.

Oopps, you are right, just talked to Shane shortly after writing and he informed me that it is not the same issue :redface: Thank you so much for taking the time to give me instructions to fix my problem. I will now leave your thread :redface::smile:

The only way a magnet can lose it's force is by physical shock or interference by another magnetic field as far as I know. Certainly time does not cause a magnet to decay.

This response and that they said the warning regarding this issue is "somewhere on the RC forums" leads me to conclude I will never use this or any product by this company. Disgusting.

that sucks, kinda like when Brad was watching my tanks while I was away and the night be for I left I started the RO to top off my frag tank and forgot about it... Brad came over the next day to a river running out the garage...


soooo... my real question is... and I am glad now I never bought the proflux, but if they don't put an expiry date on the sensor, how do you know how old it is when you buy it? I have been to a couple stores that have them on the shelves... so what if they have had it for 18 months already be for you get it...

as for posting on RC.. thats a bunch of ^$#%$# I haven't been there in over two years and don't plan on going back there ever again. no point in putting up with a slow over crowed board that 85% of the posts are flames...

Steve

Aw man, that is heartbreaking to see :neutral: I'm glad to hear you aren't giving up though.

Thanks for posting the info on the float sensor. Mine was about 4 years old before I even started using it. Its an Aquatronica though, no idea if that means anything, they're probably all made in the same factory.

Couldn't agree more, I've been staring at that after photo and I'm starting to get sick. Steve I'm so sorry for your loss man, you had one of the nicest LPS collections out there :sad:, once your set I have a few zoa frags if your looking to get into the territory.

I will personally never purchase a Proflux after reading this, with that kind of customer service I'm surprised the brand is large as it is. I would hope a certain rep. on here could flex his muscles and get some compensation on your end, *cough*.

Hello,

I am the owner of GHL/ProfiLux and the main developer of the firmware, I've been working on the firmware now for about 14 years. I think I now every bit and byte of the firmware.

A few ProfiLux users pointed me to this thread, or better to this Anti-ProfiLux campaign.

Usually we don't comment every post about our products, but this case needs some clarification. The only aim of this thread is to damage the reputation of our products. We understand that someone gets angry and disappointed when he had losses and that he needs someone he can blame for it and we really feel sorry for what has happened.

BUT: I have to state clearly that GHL (or the ProfiLux-products) is not responsible for this problems!

To have dozens of power-cuts in a few days is not a normal operating condition - most electric devices would have problems with this! Had the electricity supplier also been blamed for the problems which happened? Is it wise to leave a tank without any personal supervision? Every technology can fail, failures can be caused by powercuts, surges, water in the device (which happens very often!) or just bad settings or a snake sitting in the floater.

This happened:
- the setting for the max. on-time for the ATO was not adequate for this system - 20 minutes are way too much!
- the tank has been too long without someone looking after it (when I am out of town I have always someone who is looking daily after everything in the house, I am sure most people do the same)

If power-cuts are "normal" in this area a UPS is a must-have.

Talking about the firmware
Yes, the error is reset after a power-cycle. Most users wanted exactly this behaviour for many reasonable reasons. No, I don't make here now a list of this reasons or start another discussion about this function. If interested in this topic than visit our forum http://forum.aquariumcomputer.com/forum.php
The time-out function has been working in this way for 14 years now - never ever anyone had a problem with it, and we are talking about some thousand ProfiLux users.

What will GHL learn from this?
1. we added more warnings and security hints in our manuals, like "don't leave your tank alone too long" and we mentioned it clearer in bold letters that error states are reset after a power-cut
2. I consider to make this behaviour - reset error after powercycle - adjustable



Again, we are very sorry hearing that this happened to one of our customers. But we have to refuse the responsibility for this.
However, if we can help you with some discounts or products for free then send me an email, I will see what we can do.

PS:
The warranty period starts with selling the product to the end customer and not when the customer decides to use a product. How will a manufacturer know when the customer really started to use a product? I think this common and normal for every product you can buy and nothing special for GHL products. Or does Samsung replace you a TV-set after 4 years when you state that you didn't use it the first 3 years? I don't think so.

I think we have to correct this also

complete nonsense - why should float sensors expire? My float-sensors had been working now for 6 years without a problem.

Who tells these stories? Not true at all!

And we never said that you could read these things in RC.

All we have to say about sensor in general is here:
http://www.aquariumcomputer.com/Syst...cessories.html

There is not one word about expiring level sensors!

Very nice to see you here Matthias

In defence of the OP, they were, in no way, trying to damage the reputation of ProfiLux
It was made very clear from the start that the OP was only wanting to warn other users of the product that a catastrophic failure could occur

If you read the end of the first post, you will find this ...
I see nothing there that is damaging to ProfiLux
On the contrary, all I see is the OP taking full responsibility for the issue

I will leave the rest of the comments to the OP, but, again, it is really nice to have you here and hopefully your comments about the float sensors will clear up some issues

yes, maybe you are right about the aim of this thread

if this is the case then I apologize and take it back

I don't want to attack the OP in any way, and again I am very sorry for what has happened
but I have to defence the company and the products

you can see the result - regardless what the original aim was: the reaction of some shows that they got now the impression the ProfiLux is the worst thing in the world....

the debate about "expiring floater sensors" is also not OK, there are statements which are just not true

i dont think the OP intended for this thread to be a boycott of your products just a warning to ppl of what can happen with your product.. it is up to the veiwers of teh thread to makeup thier own decisions can computers fail yes.. from what i read the OP did hve ppl checking the tank daily and it was caught tried to save it but too late... and im sorry but ppl work are you saying that im a bad reefer because i leave my tank unattended 8 hours a day with no supervision. maybe i should quit my job..thats why we have a controller to babysit for us. it could happen to me with my apex or RKL... facts i know from this thread is this his controller screwed up.. due to a power flux or whatever and his tank is buggered. should it have screwed up... maybe as the owner i would want to replace the system and get his system in for testing to see why it did what it did rather than say not my fault.. to ensure future or existing customers never have this issue again.. but thats just my opinion... rather than trynng to make th OP look like a fool.. listen to the end users work with them and work towards a safer controller for teh long run

but thats just me rant over