Whats wrong with my fish ??
 

So something seems to be affecting my fish...

They more or less look the same ,perhaps a bit more muted in color ,but nothing major.

However they are acting a lot different. They are all flashing against the filter tubing or on the sand ,and they all look like they want to be cleaned by the chromis. They will flare their fins and open their mouths to be cleaned ,but sadly chromis don't clean fish.


Also my water seems a little off. Not full out cloudy ,but not quite crystal clear like it should be. Its clear ,it just seems...off....

Ich?

I don't think so.

There is no ich spotting.

Alright what are your parameters

Ammonia 0
Nitate is a little high but nothing horrible
Nitrite is 0


I'll do a full test tomorrow. All my testing stuff is being washed tonight.

When was the last introduction to your tank and what was it?

Cloudy water? maybe a bacterial bloom? as you dosing something or do you have biopellets?

There have been two in the last week.

First was a female anthias who was badly beat up by my male ,and she soon developed a cloudy layer over he eyes ,followed by clowing over by her whole body ,loss of balance ,stopped eating and died.

I replaced her with another female last night ,and she looks to be pretty healthy so far.

I did put a bit of Kanaplex for the female anthias ,however other then that ,nothing.

Also no bio-pellets.

Sounds like it could be a parasite introduced with the anthias. Maybe velvet or broklynella.

Watch your fish closely and if they start to develop the same thing as the anthias, then treat them in a quarantine. Either velvet or brooklynella are both very fast killer and the treatment is different for both. Cupramine for the velvet and formaline or Seachem Paraguard for brooklynella.

If they are scratching and flashing, it is probably a parasite and if it is not ich, then it is something else. Unfortunately that rise the probability of your fish having velvet or brook.

Mm ,thats no good.

Its all that stupid second anthias's fault. Everyone was fine until her.


I picked up a little cleaner wrasse toight to help ease the fishes itching, all my fish are molesting him to clean them :P

I took some pictures

http://s554.photobucket.com/albums/j...y/Sick%20Fish/

Yes, fish are stupid, but also they don't have any ressources. If they have a parasite it is up to us to do what is needed and quarantine our fish, and treat them if they become sick or contaminated with any parasite.

Nothing a stupid fish can do on its own.

A cleaner wrasse is nice but it won't cure the parasites on the gills or it won't eliminate all of them.

Very true

Also I know the cleaner wont fix things ,but the poor fish looked so itchy ,so I figured that the wrasse wouldn't hurt anything :biggrin: You can see in pictures 21,22 and 23 how all my fish clustered around the wrasse to be cleaned :razz:

So going from the pictures ,what would you say my fish have come down with ??

How long has your tank been set up?
Looks fairly new from the pics....way too new to have that many critters in it already.
It's not just the fish...none of your corals look very happy either

+1 on that! I would say at a MAX 1 or 2 fish. That bioload for a new tank is probably a issue.

when why would they pile up to get cleaned by the wrasse if it was water quality?

That could be but also there are maybe some parasites.

Unless there is some ammonia, I doubt the fish would scratch from water quality. But then again, the tank does look like it's brand new...how old is that tank?

Never said there wasn't a parasite issue....if they fish are all scratching against rocks and sand, they no doubt have either parasites or some sort of bacterial or fungal issue.
The state of the zoas looks like they have the same issue.

If you simply throw a lot of livestock into a brand new tank...you're going to have problems. This tank has no visable life in the sand bed yet, no growth on any of the rock or equipment.....it looks very new and barren.
From the sounds of it nothing was dipped or quarantined either.

The tank is younger ,however its old enough :wink:

The water tested fine when it was tested a few days ago ,I'll test it again when I get home from work.

I think its a parasite of some sort ,as this morning and last night the wrasse was going to town cleaning everyone ,and this morning all the fish were out swimming around ,as opposed to yesterday ,when everyone was hiding.

Also everything does indeed look very clean ,I'm pretty anal about it looking clean. I dont let scum grow on my glass ,tubing or powerheads.

By clean...I wasn't talking about your glass.
Rock and sand that have time to cycle, cure, age and grow the beneficial bacteria you need for a healthy tank are not white and clean.
A healthy sand bed has color, it has bacteria and fauna in it...you will be able to see tunnels and tracks under the water line from the critters that are cleaning up the detrius.
Rock will be aged...it will have good algae growth....coralline in shades of pink, green, red and purple.
These are the backbone to a healthy tank with natural filtration....and your tank has no signs of the above .

Throwing 6 or 7 fish into an immature tank is a recipe for disaster.
I went 3 months with no fish...then added one damsel....several months later I added a clown. My tank was 6 months old before adding a third.
Now that my tank is more mature....has recovered from a recent move, has plenty of growth on the rocks and a healthy, live sand bed....I will go out and get all of the fish I've wanted in it.

Your corals and inverts are the best gauge to the health of your tank....they will tell you long before your fish that something isn't right....and your corals and inverts don't look good at all....they're not happy campers.

Testing your water won't tell you what you've introduced into your tank....and a cleaner fish won't cure anything. If it's not parasitic, it's bacterial or fungal...but it is obviously not thriving right now.

BTW - cleaner shrimp and wrasses will clean anything and everything you put in your tank...it isn't an indication that there is necessarily a parasite

O.k ,yes ,my tank is young and such.

However that is not the issue. I did not post here to be heckled about my tank and its stock and maturity.

So I maintain my original question ,what is wrong with my fish and how do I fix it ??

Heckled? Really?:question:

People can't help you without details.
Three people asked you how long your tank has been up and running....you don't find it relevant...it is.

There are no visable parasites, spots or other signs of disease on your fish, therefore, no one can give you a positive answer as to what is going on.
You added a visably ill fish with cloudy eyes to your tank. What was wrong with her and what she died of...again, no one can tell you that without seeing that fish. ( although cloudy eyes can be caused by a bacterial infection )

You were not heckled.....you wanted advice....and were advised that your tank is too new to have that much livestock added...and that is part of your problem...whether you care to admit it or not. It is an issue.

Since you do not have a disease or parasite that is visable.....and since you have corals in your tank....dosing with anything could result in losing your corals and inverts. So, it is not advisable to experiment with different treatments just in case.

The fish in your photos don't look critically ill....no spots, no white patches, no sores, all are swimming normally. Until you can see something, it's dangerous to start dosing your tank just in case.
The fact that they appear itchy could mean something like flukes.....gaping mouths, slowing down, pale...could well be water quality....not just chemically, but airation, flow, temp, filtration, salinity.
A parasite would not explain why your corals are also not looking healthy.

Janalta, good answer!

Well, that might just be what's wrong with your fish, or at least part of what's wrong. If the tank is too young and does not have enough bacterias to handle such bioload, you are going to have ammonia in the water and that irritate and burn the gills.

If you don't see any physical sign like white dots or white velvety coat on the fish and they are scratching, it might just be ammonia upsetting them.

I don't think anyone has posted this to upset you or criticize you, it was just a good point to verify as it might just be the problem or a big part of it.

O.k ,more info.

I just tested the water ,it came back the following. It probably also explains the coral not looking so hot.

Nitate = 3
Nitrite = 0.05
Ammonia = 0.7
pH = 7.3 (I believe the low ammonia is why the coral is un-happy)

Tank has been up for about 2 months :redface:

Also the anthias wasnt ill looking when I added her ,however after a few days eyes ,and then body clouded over and she died.

Also something is coming over the filefish. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/j...h/DSCF9638.jpg
http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/j...h/DSCF9639.jpg
http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/j...h/DSCF9640.jpg

ETA : Sorry if I seem snappish/over defensive or anything ,it's just one of those things...if that makes sence ;)

Is that an orange spot filefish? If so.. I thnk they are very specific on what they eat...

Believe they only eat coral...not a good choice for a fish.

Yup, just checked, they require SPS corals for snacking on.

I think they only eat acro polyps

Correct. The fish is already dead :(

Try telling that to mine :wink:

She eats frozen food pasted onto SPS skeletons. If the mood strikes her she will also take frozen off of the bottom.

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/j...h/DSCF9634.jpg




too many added at too soon i believe you maxed out your bio load, there are 6 fish in the picture above and the tank is only 2 mths old.....minus cycling and its alot of fish in a couple short weeks.


the tests say so them selves there should be no amonia present in a healthy tank.

fish will always go to the cleaner because there is nothing else they can do the cleaner will always accept a free meal.


first i would get rid of the amonia by a hefty water change and feed the fish with garlic soaked foods.i wouldnt add anything else to the tank for a few weeks, they really need to mature. the way to a successful tank from scratch is one with a low bio load added over time.

good luck:)

Sounds good.

I'll buy some more salt and do a 50% change in godspeed ,and soak all their food in garlic. Not sure how I'll do that for the filefish ,though...

I'll be sure to keep thing updated with how my fish do :biggrin:

Also yes ,no more fish for this tank in a long while.

+1 to what Denny(reefwars) said.....I would also think about where you are buying your fish from.....it doesnt sound as tho your getting the best advice...dont be afraid to ask questions and be "up front" and honest about your tank.....say something like "Im looking at fish X, my tank is two monthes old, its gonna be a reef and I have these fish so far"....this will go a long way in getting, hopefully, good advice.... ....consider yourself fortunate that your filefish is eating a prepared food..... they are considered an expert only fish.....anthias are another fish in that category.....Ive steered many experienced hobbyists with large enough and mature tanks away from them at our shop....really a difficult fish to be successful with

if the filefish doesnt eat it it wont be a big deal the idea is to keep their appetite up, if a fish starts to lose its appetite its all downhill from there.the fish will love the garlic.

the corals are most likely unhappy because of the amonia and diatom algae, brush the algae off your zoas they will open again.

get a test kit for phosphate and see where you stand there controlling phosphate is a huge factor in controlling algae;)

absolutely man i myself wouldnt try that filefish and anthias are known to be very tricky eaters and finiky fish:P

its cool that the filefish eats frozen off sticks id like to see a video of that:):)

Very true to everything said.

I know all about the filefish and their reputation ,I bought her knowing the risks ,and so far I have not come to regret it.

The Lyretails suprised me, I only found out that they are supposed to be picky fish a few days ago. The male is doing perfect ,feeding on NLS and frozen ,and the female takes frozen ,so I guess I lucked out.


Heh ,I few years ago I had a sunburst anthias in my really getto 10 gallon ,she did really good (about a year) until her mouth got busted up and she stopped eating :cry: Perhaps I have an anthias green thumb :razz:

Shall do ,once I can find some more SPS skeletons. :) I've used up all of mine so now she's eating my millipora until I get more in hand.

I shall also buy a phosphate test kit on my crusades tomorrow.

ETA : I'm also assuming getting a pH buffer wouldn't hurt either ,to help bring it up to around 8.3 ??

re test your ph throughout the day first and see what the differences are and do so for a couple of days, adding buffer is a last resort.


when you get the test kit and you test for phosphate if there is any consider looking into a reactor to run some gfo.it will keep algae away and even keep you from cleaning the glass less.

Shall do ,on both ends.

getting them to eat is actually the easy part of the equation......... they dont have a stomach like most fish....they do best with several small feedings a day, which for most people either isnt physically possible or causes their tanks nutrient issues......the other part is, they have a very complex social hierarchy..... the males keep harems of females so in a small tank with only one female to chase, chances are your female will be stressed.....

It looks to me like your filefish has a bacterial infection....presumably the same one your dead female brought in.
I assume you don't have an isolation/QT tank for him?

Your tank is still cycling and besides all of the imbalances in ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, etc....there just aren't enough beneficial bacteria and fauna in your tank yet to sustain the critters you've got in there.

I wouldn't do a full 50% water change right now...your fish are too stressed already. Try 25% tomorrow, then give it some time before you change more...testing every day.
PH is the least of your worries right now...I wouldn't worry about doing anything about that until you get your tank stabilized.