Help us develop the skimmer you want
 

Firstly we are proud to announce that Aqua Digital Inc have invested heavily in bringing to you a truly Canadian ONLY marketed skimmer!

We have learnt a lot from Canreef members feedback in what they want from a skimmer and we have already applied this to the new Bubble Magus skimmers we will bring out shortly

BUT - We have gone one step further!

We wanted to bring you a premium line of skimmers based on everything you asked for, and this is your chance to help us finalise the design.

So news so far - everyone loved the Skimz body of their skimmers but we felt it was lacking in the pump, taking into account there is no point re inventing a perfectly good wheel, we have decided to pick the cream of the Skimz range and have them modified to ours and your criterias.

So the first change will be the pump. But which pump? We want cost effectiveness balanced with performance, and the only two on the market that we believe can bring this is both Aqua Bee and Sicce (the new range)

But please give us your feedback on your preffered pump out of these two, both positive and negative, please only base your comments on the latest models especially in regards to Sicce. (the PSK2500 is no longer an option) we are looking at the 600 - 1000 - 1200 high air draw. For Aquabee it will be the all new ceramic bearing 2001 and 3000

one of my peevs is they post lilters only not gallons as well i hate converting lol ok im whining but hey its all good.

it would be interestng to see a skimmer that will handle ozone hookup/with filtration for ozone air export in the collection self cleaning rinses itelf down the drain ok now im dreaming. i have a few ideas but i just cant put them into words which may not even work anyways.

Accurate ratings for tanks. If you say its rated for a 90 gallon reef tank it should handle a 90 gallon reef tank.

Also a dependable pump that will restart in the even the pump gets turned off without having to fiddle with it. My #1 peeve about my Vertex.

Great feedback, for now we are talking pumps out of the two listed.

I will touch on other stuff later, however we are looking at providing a unit for everyone, more funky features and the price will go up and then everyone will say "its too expensive, I only want to spend 2 shillings and sixpence"

But for now lets talk pumps

Aquabee
Vs
Sicce

we are also talking the latest ceramic bearing hot starters not the hope for the best after a service models of yester-year.

well I guess I should put my hat in the ring first

Aqua Bee - rock solid pump, been around for years, no reported issues since advancing into ceramic bearings ditching the old stainless steel shaft and rubber jobbies. Will give you lenghty service.

Sicce - Has had huge advances and trusted by many leading names now. The new pumps seem to come with great feedback and Ralph from Sicce USA offers great client care.

Both come in about the same price.

What i look in the skimmer is
1- Must be silent
2-At least 1200 L of Air per hour (not interested in anything less then that)
3-Easy to clean i.e. no tools to get collection cup off, no brashes to wash, just bare hands.
4-must be reliable
5-easy to disassemble
In turms of the pump i would like to see Bubble Blaster pumps (I dont know if this is true but, some one said that they have same hardware as Red Dragon and Sicce pumps). Suposedly they restart OK, and have calcium build up proof shafts AND they are affordable.
Bubble Blaster HY 5000S will deliver 2000 (!!!) L of air per hour and only cost $225 USD and free shipping in USA with relatively small foot print so it can be used in the cone skimmer that is Just 24 inches tall and 14" wide.
I give my 10 stars to the Bubble magus Hero design a skimmer for less then $500
And 10 stars to Bubble Blaster HY 5000S pump. a pump for $225

here is the Coral Vue info on bubble Blaster pumps.

i dont know if anyone else cares about this. but the biggest thing i liked about my euro reef was that the skimmer cup screwed on with what looked like a large union fitting. To get it off i could just unscrew it and slide it out sideways, it required no room above the skimmer.

On my skimmer i just lift the cup and nothing to unscrew, also no room above required to lift.

yeah my new one lifts up but room is required for you to lift it. you cant lift it if there is only a little bit of space between the top of the cup and the bottom of the tank

Only problem here is that the consumer in the main now only wishes to spend about that amount on the whole skimmer not just a pump :(

So for that alone we have to rule it out.

In reards to the BM Hero, that got voted out a while back as an old design on another thread we ran, the Curve has replaced it which we are already bringing in ;) The curve body is probably the most OEM'd body at present! However the quality is visually different to that of the Skimz body, and as such our modified curve will form our entry level skimmer as of May.

Aquabees for me. Got 2 on my skimmer, and they rock. Never any restart issues. I've had mine for over 3 years now, and bought a backup skimmer(thanks ReeferRob), but i don't think i'll need the pumps anytime soon. There are no heavy wear marks, cracks, swelling.

excellent feedback thanks.

Well, if you can make a skimmer with 2000 L/H of air draw for $225 i will be the first to buy one from you.
For sure !

Aquabee is a good reliable pump, I have one running for years.
However a little noisy. At least to the point that i can hear it running.
I would want a silent pump with good rubber feet and flex or again rubber connection to the skimmer body.
Aquabees do not pull as much air as i would want for the size of the pump.

It is interesting reading the comments about air draw, but no real parity between size of skimmer and the amount of air being forced into it. This was one of the first things that was brought to our attention with Skimz, they had "THE ABILITY" to pull huge air volume numbers but in reality that amount of air was totally useless.

It is not about whacking as much air through the unit as possible but finding the fine balance of the skimmer within the enviroment it has been put in. So the important part here is making sure the units are flexible in terms of adjustment. If this was not the case why do good skimmers have air adjustment valves.

Example - the SM201 was pulling way over 1,000L/H or air, but had little skimming ability at that volume, however dialed down to 600L/H or less and you got the thickest gunk imaginable from the units.

Its about fine balancing of the skimmer but in turn making sure the pump air flow is adapatable to all enviroments.

What we have seen of late is manufacturers banging their heads against a brick wall interms of coming up with some kind of different design in skimmer body to attract sales, so the attention has turned to promoting monumental air flow numbers, 99% of the time (In my oppinion) these high numbers are not practicle and the skimmer air flow is dialed down when put to proper use.

I do not believe that just becuase XXX skimmer can "produce" more air flow than the next skimmer actually makes it any better. I could fit a whopping ASKOLL to an NAC6 but would that make it more efficient?

We plan to build a unit that offers flexibility coupled with funcionality, lets just say there will be no B.S accompanying these units. ;)

excellent explanation on the air draw matching the skimmer - running a skimmer with the air intake almost closed makes for an inefficient unit.

body and bubble plate of the vertex alpha cone 170/atb 1050 v2 skimmer - doesnt need to be built like a tank. I dont know why everyone needs a skimmer that can withstand being run over by a trunk. Its sits in your sump and doesnt exactly move around. Maybe go with a better quality collection cup if you drop it while cleaning it you dont shatter it. Replacement cups should be available and cost effective. Larger cup would be nicer than a small one.

sicce 1000 pump over the aquabee unless you can get the aquabee replacements for under $120.

external pump over pump under body design (I find the pump under bodies always end up being to tall or are a crap skimmer cause the body isnt big enough.

most sumps are only 12" wide - make sure the foot print has atleast one side that is under 12"

adaptor for pump intake to attach bio pellet reactor effluent - cheap

honest ratings capability

easy to disassemble and clean.

solid set of english instructions available online.

Aqua Bee for less than $120 - we plan to bring the 2000i to the market for $99! :)

I always thought the pump was the best feature on my 121. The design not so much.

In regards to pumps, is a recirc design possible with the new style skimmers (cone)? Or does it not need this extra overhead and cost. If Recirc is better in any design, I would be more inclined to buy that one.

I myself still use a 3 pump skimmer... One intake, Two Recirc's

Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah, Mike thank you for the parts, Kevin (Red Coral) gave me what I needed. Thanks again.

The 121 was a different design all together.

In regards to internal mounted pump vs external body mounted, the reason why internal has become so popular is due to the small foot print, however you will be pleased to know we hope to be bringing in also our version of the much hypes Leopard from skimz also, just not with the Askoll as this pushed the skimmer above what was needed and also cost put it out of the region most are now willing to pay for anything.

Nice. Full disassembly is a nice feature.

what was reason for changing to different pump?? didn't see much of issue with the Eden pump myself

That is something I loved about my ER250 too. The newer skimmers have the rubber seals so you have to gently ease the cup up and when it comes free, it sometimes spills if its full. The slight twist and its off for the ER design was better IME.

What I'm looking for in a skimmer is something like the Super Reef Octopus XP1000 Space Saver SRO XP1000SSS. (This is the skimmer I am currently looking at)

Good reliable quiet pump
Easy to remove lid (ER is still the best)
Air Intake Silencer
Easy to clean
Solid body construction

Quite pump
A big enough neck to fit my hand in to clean the body
Muffler or air filter to make the skimmer quite
A drain in the collection cup
External pump with quick connect for cleaning
A gate valve for adjusting the skimmers water level

I like how the vertex skimmer necks come off for cleaning.

What i would like to see is someone build a decent HOB skimmer for nanos... no pump in the tank entirely external. the rio nanoskimmer is a good start but has issues with water level changes due to evap.

well the first and biggest choice has been made, thanks for all your feedback.

We now have our pump! :)

The reveal will come in about 6 weeks after we get some final testing data back from both manufacturers.

Hope its the Aquabee. Read nothing but good things about it.

This excites me! the $120 and $99 prices you mentioned before, are those for full skimmers or just the pump?

So what is wrong with the
Ehiem
Atman 2500
IMO the Sicci 2500 has always had start up issues due to the fact that mesh wheel would push so much air that when you stop the pump it would cavitate. From My Own experience. and issues. I used to own a Bubble master 250 thought this skimmer is amazing and it was until i start having problems with the pumps.

Yep thats right, only hiccup is with aquabee themselves, they are very non communincative, we are still working with them but its a slow process. We will likely use them for return pump distribution only to be honest.

Eheim - too expensive for a skimmer pump

Atman - great pump but we want to go with a euro flavour

Sicce - You are right and that is why I stated at the start we would not be using the old generation in fact they are no longer made. The New line is PSK600 PSK1000 and PSK1200

we are hoping to kit the Skimz leopard with the sicce 1200 depending on power. The Askoll puts the skimmer out of price point current expectations.

If the new gen of Sicce pumps are better than the last (I don't have any issues with my PSK2500 though) then I see no reason why not to use them. You would be starting with a foot in the grave though, and it will take some time for people to get the yucky taste out of their mouth that the old Sicce pumps deposited. If I were designing a new skimmer I would not use a pump that has a bad reputation because that's not very smart business imo. For that reason, the Atman is probably a better choice from business perspective. Going for a "Euro flavor" on a cheap skimmer seems kinda silly to me.

Either way, I'm interested to see what you guys come up with. I doubt I will be in the market for a new skimmer anytime in the foreseeable future though.

Valid point, however in this case we are not bound to anyone we have nothing to gain to support one particular pump manufacturer. So we go by case history of the pump we are looking at and this range of pumps has no documented issues and they are not new on the block.

We also go by who else is using them, and the spread is quite wide right now. Also taken into account is being aware what the past issues may have been and what has been done about that, Aqua bee, eden and others all suffered the same flaw, the use of rubber bearings, most now have switched to ceramic and molybdenum rotors including Sicce.

Yeah, I understand that the pumps are better now, but I'm also the type that researches things. I have nothing against Sicce pumps. I know a lot of people that don't have an open mind about Sicce pumps though. Put up a poll on these forums, "Would you buy a skimmer with a Sicce PSK1200 pump?" I betcha there will be more "no" than "yes", and that means using that pump would be poor market planning.

I don't understand what you mean about "nothing to gain by supporting one pump or the other". Aren't you designing the skimmer for profit? Would more sales not benefit you?

I would get the same answer with aqua bee also

What i mean is, I am not bound to any pump manufacturer so i can look at all pumps with an open mind just as a hobbyist would.

I do not see low sales for other skimmers using these pumps but I do see low uptake of manufacturers using aqua bee.

as with everything new we do, before it goes to market we allow canreefers to field trial them also. We are dedicating this to the Canadian market so your insight is paramount, however we also have to be aware of cost that you all wish to pay and also availability of pumps that fall within everyones now very low price point expectations. if everyone and I mean the majority are willing to pay above $500 for a 150 gallon capable skimmer we would have lots more choice, but in the past 2 years you have all voted you want that size skimmer for less than $300 sometimes less than $250

Economy of products and what you all are now willing to pay dictates what features we can and can not use.

We wanted to go with Askoll for the leopard as it was designed for but the price point would have put it in territory of more marketed names, it would have been a too tough sell, and then no, we would not of made any money. Thats not saying however the buyer can not add the Askoll later if they so choose.

Mike with this all being said, I know that you are going to choose the right pump. Because in the end its the pump that makes the skimmer.... And the other things assist like easier cleaning ability, quiet, LPH of air, compact. Maybe when thinking about the skimmer we also need a pump that is able to handle the different levels of water in different sumps. IE with the SWC skimmer the 160 Cone a amazing little skimmer it runs at 7 -11" and there really isnt any difference in settings which is really good IME /and IMO.
But what if Mike, we think about not only compact but Girth with the ATI bubble master 250 the body is 8 " or 10 " and the neck is made to a whooping 6 " for easy wipping and a more fat area neck. Like the H&S skimmer.

This is causing the pump not to push the water harder but allowing the contact time to be in the body longer for which what we want and allowing the nutrients to make its way up the neck naturally instead of forcing the bubbles up causing less effectiveenss skimate.

This is why we are keeping with the skimz body with a few tiny mods as it is very fexible in terms of depth and has a small footprint. I also like the way the skimmer collection cup connects.

The body quality blows pretty much anything else out the water also.

Take into account also BM are now OEM for so many skimmers on the market, its crazy, all fighting over what is the best colour to put to their "new skimmer"

I agree with this 100% I have the ATI 200 and the width of the head and short stocky design allow lots of flow through the skimmer while still allowing a great deal of water/air contact time. Very easy to clean, I can do the whole thing without touching the skimmer cup by sticking my faucet inside the neck and spinning.

Also brings the next issue, Pumps. The ATI uses the sicce 2500's, if the new sicce's have the same startup issues it would be very beneficial to spend a bit more on the better aquabee pump. I know in reefing "spend a little more for better" is common, but i'm a very cheap bastard who DIY's most stuff to save a penny, and I even agree it's better to spend the money on a better pump. My skimmer is now set to "lockout" after a power out, I don't even try to turn it on when everything comes back on. I only restart it manually because I know that it can not start by itself. It's beyond the "blow into the hose" not starting up, I have to take off the shroud and spin start it. It's been this way for a long time, very clean etc, the red devil pinwheel has made the startups go from 50/50 to imposssible, but made the skimmer far more effective.

I have said this before a few times in this thread we are not using the sicce 2500 it is not even available.