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Clown fish questions
I had a pair of clowns that I got when they were tiny one was about 40% larger than the other, I am guessing the female. I just got a 3rd clown much larger than the other two at least twice as big as the female in my tank . how long before the old female switches back to male and what happens with the smallest male ? Is this a going to happen for sure or is there a chance of the bonded pair to stay bonded ?
Clown fish police move along ! |
All tank bred clowns start off as males. I'm not 100% sure but once they switch to females I don't think they can switch back to males again.
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Ok then i guess I may need to add 1 more small clown and hope they pair off I guess Ill need to start an other tank.
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If the female dies the male becomes female but once a female they cannot turn male. Only forward not back. |
You should only keep 2 clowns in one tank. Any more than that and eventually the dominant pair will kill off the other clownfish.
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I have seen multiple clowns kept together successfully ! |
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3 is a bad number for clownfish they almost always kill off the third or stress him out bad.the bigger the tank and hiding the better the chances. |
I agree with reefwars although if you must attempt 3 A. ocellaris are probably your best bet.
True Perculas are notorious for having 3 then all of a sudden the female kills the adolescent (3rd clown) in preperation for breeding. A. ocellaris pairs will almost treat the 3rd as a nurse allowing it to help tend/gaurd the nest. Some pairs wont let the 3rd join in. I know a breeding trio up for sale right now where the little guy is accepted by the breeding pair if anyone is looking. |
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a breeding trio thats prety cool trusting female for sure:) |
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Correct except the smaller fish are not males nor females they are "adolescents" waiting for one of the pair to die and take place of the male. In the ocean there is a huge amount of room for the smaller clowns to swim away vs in our aquarium. Not to mention 10 adolescent clowns in the wild vs 1 or 2 in our tanks. Another cool fact; studies have shown in areas where clown fish hosting anemones live without a hosting clown pair the anemones get eaten and the other way around. Those small little clowns help protect the anemone and the anemone returns the favor. |
[quote=Ryan;677340]Correct except the smaller fish are not males nor females they are "adolescents" waiting for one of the pair to die and take place of the male.
I thought they were all born as males and then change to females if the conditions are right. Most of the articles I have read have stated this. Although they have been just Internet sources though so I'm not sure how accurate they are. Either way they are interesting little fish that's for sure. :biggrin: |
I guess you could think of it like that but in the Joyce D. Wilkerson book its stated that clowns are born with both sexual organs but they are not fully developed until they fish sort out who is male or female and who stays adolescent.
Who knows whos right. I have never actually cut one open to see. |
Everything I've heard for years tells me that they are all born "genderless" then the largest one develops into a female and the second biggest turns into a male. If the female dies, the male turns into a female and the next largest one develops into a male. If the male dies, the next largest develops into a male and the female stays the same. I've had this happen in my tanks before so I have personally witnessed these types of gender transformations.
Right now, in the cube tank, the two largest have bred and adopted the RBTA (although they have a third roommate). The other four or five small Ocellaris stay away from the mated pair and live on the other end of the cube tank. |
Yeah i think it was a mistake on my part to introduce this other clown at this stage, It's a Clarkii and from what Iv'e read are a little anal to tank mates - so Iv'e pulled the 2 smaller ones out. I guess one would need to start from scratch with 5 or 6 juveniles .
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I "had" 2 ocellaris and 2 clarkii in my 180, it didn't end well. I'd stick to the pair...
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Clarkii clowns are probably the most tolerant of other clown, they just have to be from the clarkii complex. Clarkiis will pair off with a other clowns that arent even clarkiis. Such as clarkii x and 2 band are pretty commOn.
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I'm hoping mine will be ok together. I have 2 yr old false perc clowns and 6 month old Ocellaris.
The Ocellaris are not hosting anemones though...weird. Haven't added the false percs to the tank yet. |
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Good luck to everyone trying to keep more than 2 clowns in the same tank. I ignored everyone`s reasoning before too and just did it because I wanted to. It may work, for a while, as it has for others. Clownfish live for 25 to 30 years, so 6 months to a year living together is nothing. When you are having to try to save a clownfish when the dominant pair start kicking the crap out of the weaker clownfish, you will realize what a mistake it is. In a huge system, I have heard of a few people being able to keep 2 pairs, sometimes.
I tried baby`s all born and raised together as well, and they all died due to getting sick from the extreme stress of what I put them through. It was my saddest day in this hobby seeing clownfish die due to my own stupidity and ignorance. If you want to see how well multiple clownfish live together, go to West Edmonton Mall and check out their clownfish tank. I watched it for about 15 minutes and it was constant fighting and bickering. Big Al`s in Edmonton used to have 4 clowns together in a tank for a about a year. There are 2 in the tank now. If you are trying to mix different types of clowns, good luck. It can be done, but most of the time the dominant clownfish kills the other one if it isn`t done correctly. My rant is done. Each person will do as they please, as I did. Just know what you are getting into. |
People mix different species all the time. A. Percula and A. Ocellaris get mixed and pair all the time. Skunks are the same. You just have to mix in the same complex. You cant mix clarkkiis with perculas or maroons and skunks.
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+1 very few people house clowns together long term in large numbers, simply because when 2 pair off it can be ok for a while but when they want to mate they will take a larger territory and the female will become very aggressive thats why a large tank is a must or at the least alot of good hiding places.....with fish its out of sight out of mind if they can see each other there will be trouble:) clowns are sexless untill there is no male or female present then a neutral takes the role of male and the male will take female if the female dies:) |
The neutrals fight for who gets to be girl. The loser becomes the male.
This is why even in a group of adolescents you cant take the most dominant one and put it with a larger clown. Its is probably already turning to female (skipping the male stage) |
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hahah its funny eh and then it gets even worse because the new male has to put up with the harrassment from the female :p alot of times when adding a male to a tank with an established female theres a good solid week or bickering :):) |
Yup poor bugger.
I have heard thought thats the best way to pair maroons. Take a big established female and plunk in a tiny adolescent. The female just accepts the small guy and the small one is too scared of this new giant to even fight back!! Clown males do have it good in a way though. The female will give her life to defend her mate and her clutch of eggs. |
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thats what i do when shopping for a male, my last pair were cinnamons and as im sure you know they are quite aggressive when full grown, so in order to replace the male i had to buy a small male, small enough he wouldnt fight back but large enough as not to be killed. pairing can be difficult when maturity hits the female, my female killed the first 2 small clowns and accepted the 3rd it was even longer again before she would allow the anemone to host the new male:p for the first time ever i have a pair of clowns that arnt cinnamon clowns, ive had cinns for almost 10yrs lol about time i changed over lol |
I have given up trying to introduce any more clown fish with my female cinnamon clown. She killed the last couple that I tried, and has also killed a new butterfly before he learned to stay out of her way.
The crazy thing, though, is that she still spawns regularly (solo) at the base of a colt coral. The eggs only last a couple hours, but she cleans that area all the time. I have had some painful bites from her myself when trying to clean coralline off my glass. She is a real bulldog, not afraid of anything, no matter what size they are. And she can really whack the algae scrapper. I am surprised she doesn't hurt herself. One good thing about this clown fish, I am able to keep a few palys in the tank near her area, because the butterflys won't come near. |
Can I assume that this clarkii I have is a female because its 4 1/2 inches long ? waht happens with a juvenile fish if it was always by itself ?
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Its a good bet that the 3rd fish added (4 1/2") is female. That's a pretty good size for a clarkii. The bigger the clownfish, usually means female because the fish basically adds hormones/chromosomes to change the sex and grows. I'm assuming they are all clarkii's. Question: how long were the other 2 together? Had they ever spawned? If they hadn't and it wasn't very long, they could still be in a process of changing genders. If one had changed to female, and you added another, yes they will just fight, its just competition. Most my experience is with Perc's and Ocellaris's but i did have five ocellaris together, however there was also 3 BTA's in the tank which seperated them. 1 female for sure that paired. 2 Juvenile's paired and one Juvie just kind of hung around but there wasn't much chasing or fighting. guess i was lucky. If you just have one clownfish, there is no competition so it is the dominant fish, so it will eventually change sex, however it takes a little more time to go through the process. Everyone else is right on juvenile to male to female, but never backwards. sorry for the novel! hope it helps.
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