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Carrera75 12-29-2011 06:20 AM

Losing Corals fast...question about GE Silicone II
 
Another reefer and I built a back chamber for my new cube tank and we used GE Silicone II. I set up the tank and almost immediately I started losing corals and I blame the GE Silicone II. Is this product reef safe?

Another reefer shared this link not long ago and it makes me think that the other reefer that helped me out build the back chamber used the wrong Silicone.
http://www.reeftime.com/diy-reef-pro...ef-safe/23.htm

I recently shut down my 34 gallon Solana and set up a cube tank. This transfer was very well planned and I made sure that all corals, fish and liverock were placed in Rubbermaid containers immediately. Each container had a powerhead or two to keep the water moving and a heater to make sure that the temperature remained stable. All corals were open and happy during this time but all this changed as soon as they went into the new tank.

Tank is currently not doing well and I am losing corals fast and I am afraid that the GE Silicone II is the responsible for all the loses. There is no other explanation for what's going on in my tank. The liverock has been in my systems for the last 7 years and I used new sand. I get it that a small cycle might happen but not this. Whatever this is, it's killing my corals. So far I have lost an Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia and it seems that the Octopus Frogsoawn is on its way out too. All 9 Rock Flower Anemones spawned last night and the rest of the corals are not looking good.

I started doing water changes as soon as I realized that there was something wrong with the tank and finally did some water testing last night. Phosphates, Nitrites and Nitrates were at 0.0 but Ammonia was at 0.25 ppm. I quickly did another water change, waited a bit and tested again. The w/c seemed to bring down the Ammonia to 0.0. I also started running Purigen and ROWAphos hoping that this will eliminate whatever it's that's bothering the corals.

What should I do now? Should I take everything out of the tank to remove the Silicone?

unclesalty 12-29-2011 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera75 (Post 665511)
A friend and I built a back chamber for my new cube tank and we used GE Silicone II and I would like to know if GE Silicone II is reef safe. Up until now all the info that I have found says that it is NOT safe but I am hoping to get some feedback from people with some experience with this product.

Another reefer shared this link not long ago and it makes me think that the other reefer that helped me out build the back chamber used the wrong Silicone.
http://www.reeftime.com/diy-reef-pro...ef-safe/23.htm

I recently shut down my 34 gallon Solana and set up a cube tank. This transfer was very planned and I made sure that all corals, fish and liverock were placed in Rubbermaid containers immediately. Each container had a powerhead or two to keep the water moving and a heater to make sure that the temperature remained stable. All corals were open and happy during this time but all this changed as soon as they went into the new tank.

Tank is currently not doing well and I am losing corals fast and I am afraid that the GE Silicone II is the responsible for all the loses. I was even told by the reefer that told me to use the GE Silicone II to put a fan in front of the back chamber and this would cure the Silicone in about 4 hours. This idea didn't sound right to me so I let it cure for over 2 days instead. There is no other explanation for what's going on in my tank. The liverock has been in my systems for the last 7 years and I used new sand. I get it that a small cycle might happen but not this. Whatever this is, it's killing my corals. So far I have lost an Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia and it seems that the Octopus Frogsoawn is on its way out too. All 9 Rock Flower Anemones spawned last night and the rest of the corals are not looking good.

I started doing water changes as soon as I realized that there was something wrong with the tank and finally got did some water testing last night. Phosphates, Nitrites and Nitrates were at 0.0 but Ammonia was at 0.25 ppm. I quickly did another water change, waited a bit and tested again. The w/c seemed to bring down the Ammonia to 0.0. I also started running Purigen and ROWAphos hoping that this will eliminate whatever it's that's bothering the corals.

I am so :mad: right now.....

I just did some research the other day on GE II ! People say its not reef safe and have lost livestock from using it. Some people say its no problem at all though so who knows. Myself I lost some livestock mysteriously when I started up a tank a year ago and I did use it to silicone my 2 corner overflows together. Just use GE SCS1200 to be safe which I actually bought today for my build. Its also the best and strongest silicone money can buy.

msjboy 12-29-2011 06:40 AM

That is a shame...i think you have one of nicest tanks around that is sumpless and skimmerless. Hope you can replensih the stock with frags you passed on in the past.... How are the 200 rics doing?
Msjboy

Carrera75 12-29-2011 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msjboy (Post 665515)
That is a shame...i think you have one of nicest tanks around that is sumpless and skimmerless. Hope you can replensih the stock with frags you passed on in the past.... How are the 200 rics doing?
Msjboy

You have no idea how ****ed I am right now. The new tank was looking amazing that is until corals started dying. I did a very minimalist open aquascape that totally rocks. I might have to tear this tank apart to get rid of the GE Silicone II .

It really hurt to lose the Aussie Gold Torch and Neon Green/Blue Wall Hammer. They were stunning corals :-(
Oh, and the ricordeas are NOT happy right now.......

If I lose most of my corals I'll get out of the hobby for sure.....I would have no desire or time to invest more energy into the hobby

unclesalty 12-29-2011 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera75 (Post 665511)
Another reefer and I built a back chamber for my new cube tank and we used GE Silicone II. He assured me that it was totally reef safe and I believed him but now I am not so sure that this thing is reef safe so I thought I would ask other reefers what their views are on this product. Up until now all the info that I have found says that it is NOT safe but I am hoping to get some feedback from people with some experience with this product.

Another reefer shared this link not long ago and it makes me think that the other reefer that helped me out build the back chamber used the wrong Silicone.
http://www.reeftime.com/diy-reef-pro...ef-safe/23.htm

I recently shut down my 34 gallon Solana and set up a cube tank. This transfer was very planned and I made sure that all corals, fish and liverock were placed in Rubbermaid containers immediately. Each container had a powerhead or two to keep the water moving and a heater to make sure that the temperature remained stable. All corals were open and happy during this time but all this changed as soon as they went into the new tank.

Tank is currently not doing well and I am losing corals fast and I am afraid that the GE Silicone II is the responsible for all the loses. I was even told by the reefer that told me to use the GE Silicone II to put a fan in front of the back chamber and this would cure the Silicone in about 4 hours. This idea didn't sound right to me so I let it cure for over 2 days instead. There is no other explanation for what's going on in my tank. The liverock has been in my systems for the last 7 years and I used new sand. I get it that a small cycle might happen but not this. Whatever this is, it's killing my corals. So far I have lost an Aussie Gold Torch, Neon Green and Blue Wall Hammer, Orange Frogspawn, Galaxia and it seems that the Octopus Frogsoawn is on its way out too. All 9 Rock Flower Anemones spawned last night and the rest of the corals are not looking good.

I started doing water changes as soon as I realized that there was something wrong with the tank and finally got did some water testing last night. Phosphates, Nitrites and Nitrates were at 0.0 but Ammonia was at 0.25 ppm. I quickly did another water change, waited a bit and tested again. The w/c seemed to bring down the Ammonia to 0.0. I also started running Purigen and ROWAphos hoping that this will eliminate whatever it's that's bothering the corals.

I am so :mad: right now.....

Just reread your post and its definitely the cause. 2 days isn't even close to letting it cure. I have heard you need weeks and weeks to let GE II cure.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclesalty (Post 665517)
Just reread your post and its definitely the cause. 2 days isn't even close to letting it cure. I have heard you need weeks and weeks to let GE II cure.


I let it cure for over 48 hours

unclesalty 12-29-2011 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera75 (Post 665518)
Can you believe I was told to put a fan in front of the back chamber and this would cure it in 4 hours..............grrrrrrr I feel like kicking somebody's butt right now

I left my GE II cure for a week but it was nowhere near long enough. It releases a chemical I read until its fully cured -ammonia I think it was but not 100% sure

bkelly 12-29-2011 06:54 AM

I just had a big crash and lost all my SPS after re siliconing my sump and letting it cure for over 24 hrs using the same GE II silicone. I am not certain it was the silicone or just a kill from having to pull my sump for 2-3 days but all my SPS except 2 pieces died my LPS suffered but not as bad. I had done reading on line and found most posts were saying THE Blue/white tube of GE silicone II was reef safe. Either way killed everything.
I put tons of carbon in my reactor and did water changes till the town was out of salt - for the first few weeks i was changing nearly daily as much as i could do. ITs been 2 months i guess, the tanks better, and starting to support itself with less water changes. And its supporting SPS again.
If your seeing signs id frag whats still alive best you can and that into a diff system to hopefully have something left , .
My crash drug on for a weeks thats what leads me to think it was poisoned. Nothing survived it , my parameters werent out of wack from what i could recall although you could smell the death.
Hope you dont get it as severe but if you want to be safe id recommend doing some quick fragging.
All the best Brent

Carrera75 12-29-2011 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly (Post 665521)
I just had a big crash and lost all my SPS after re siliconing my sump and letting it cure for over 24 hrs using the same GE II silicone. I am not certain it was the silicone or just a kill from having to pull my sump for 2-3 days but all my SPS except 2 pieces died my LPS suffered but not as bad. I had done reading on line and found most posts were saying THE Blue/white tube of GE silicone II was reef safe. Either way killed everything.
I put tons of carbon in my reactor and did water changes till the town was out of salt - for the first few weeks i was changing nearly daily as much as i could do. ITs been 2 months i guess, the tanks better, and starting to support itself with less water changes. And its supporting SPS again.
If your seeing signs id frag whats still alive best you can and that into a diff system to hopefully have something left , .
My crash drug on for a weeks thats what leads me to think it was poisoned. Nothing survived it , my parameters werent out of wack from what i could recall although you could smell the death.
Hope you dont get it as severe but if you want to be safe id recommend doing some quick fragging.
All the best Brent

What's interesting is that the reefer that helped me out (and recommended to use GE Silicone II) had a major crash after setting up his new cube tank. He used GE Silicone II to build his cube too and he lost 90% of his livestock. It's just now that his tank is slowly bouncing back.

Borderjumper 12-29-2011 07:08 AM

I always thought that GE11 had mold and mildew inhibitors and shouldn't be used in aquariums. A quick google kinda confirms this?
Do you still have the solona? I would fill that up with new salt water and get all my livestock into it ASAP. Might want to keep your rock in a bin for a few days tho separate and do a few water changes on it.. To leach out the chemicals.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borderjumper (Post 665525)
I always thought that GE11 had mold and mildew inhibitors and shouldn't be used in aquariums. A quick google kinda confirms this?

That's exactly what I found out tonight after doing some research on the net. It's my own fault for trusting too much in other people and not doing my own research and yes, I still have my Solana but right now is full of water and lots of Vinager. I would hate to take the new tank apart because I built an amazing minimalist aquascape :-(
I am running Purigen and ROWAphos and doing daily water changes. Would I be able to keep the tank going if I continued with the water changes and running Purigen and ROWAphos?

Borderjumper 12-29-2011 08:13 AM

I would call GE tomorrow.. There must be a number on the silicone tube. Ask them what's in it, and how long it would take to dissipate.

I was googling and found a post on some chiclid forum.. It mentioned that recently GE changed their formulas so that all of their products now contain mold/mildew inhibitors. I don't know if this is fact or not.. If this is true don't be too fast to blame your bud.. Maybe it used to be reef safe?

Water changes certainly won't hurt!

Carrera75 12-29-2011 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borderjumper (Post 665532)
I would call GE tomorrow.. There must be a number on the silicone tube. Ask them what's in it, and how long it would take to dissipate.

I was googling and found a post on some chiclid forum.. It mentioned that recently GE changed their formulas so that all of their products now contain mold/mildew inhibitors. I don't know if this is fact or not.. If this is true don't be too fast to blame your bud.. Maybe it used to be reef safe?

Water changes certainly won't hurt!


I think I read the same post. Thanks for suggesting to get in touch with GE. It's a great idea.

Aquattro 12-29-2011 02:17 PM

I used GE II on my tank and have had no issues at all. I did let it cure longer, but 48 hours should be more than enough time to seal it chemically.

Aquattro 12-29-2011 02:20 PM

However, this was over a year ago, so if the formula changed, you might be affected by it. Last year your buddy was right, GE II "was" reef safe...

Skimmerking 12-29-2011 02:24 PM

Wow man I'm so sorry to hear about this. Your tank was so flourishing with life

Seamazter 12-29-2011 02:26 PM

Do like 5% water changes every 2 days, and use alot of carbon.
This is a sad thing to see happen, if you cannot move your corals out of the tank try the advise above.

Lonster 12-29-2011 02:27 PM

I just used GE II about a month ago to build my new sump. I read there was issues when it was not left to cure long enough, I left mine for about 5 days until it didn't give off a smell anymore and have had no problems with it. There are two different types, one with mildew inhibitor and one without, I was told to make sure that I used the one without. Are you sure you used the one without the mildew inhibitors?

fishytime 12-29-2011 02:32 PM

Really sorry to hear about your losses.....I guess the moral of the story is.... Don't cheap out..... It's amazing to me how many folks look for cheap alternatives for things in this hobby..... Only silicone I've ever used is All Glass aquarium silicone..... Way more expensive than GE or any other brand, but at least I KNOW that it is aquarium safe...... GEs products are not formulated with the aquarium hobby in mind and small changes in formulation can obviously have a big effect..... Again sorry for your issues

Aquattro 12-29-2011 02:49 PM

Doug, I don't think that's the moral of the story here at all. I'm pretty sure All Glass doesn't make silicone, it's just re-branded, and I wouldn't be surprised if it came out of GE. It's like buying Two Little Fishies seaweed (with the little dotted cut your sushi roll here lines) vs. grocery store nori. One is simply packaged for the hobby at a good profit for the repackager. The same with silicone.

fishytime 12-29-2011 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro (Post 665563)
Doug, I don't think that's the moral of the story here at all. I'm pretty sure All Glass doesn't make silicone, it's just re-branded, and I wouldn't be surprised if it came out of GE. It's like buying Two Little Fishies seaweed (with the little dotted cut your sushi roll here lines) vs. grocery store nori. One is simply packaged for the hobby at a good profit for the repackager. The same with silicone.


I realize this, but at least being branded as aquarium safe will give the consumer some sort of leg to stand on if there are any issues.....

Mandosh 12-29-2011 04:27 PM

Both GE I and GE II have "kitchen & bath" (mildew inhibitors) and "window & door." The issue with GEII, from my understanding, is the fact that it is considered "neutral cure." It doesn't realease acids as it cures (so it doesn't stink like vinegar) and because of this it can leach substances (ammonia?) into the tank water for the first couple weeks.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro (Post 665551)
I used GE II on my tank and have had no issues at all. I did let it cure longer, but 48 hours should be more than enough time to seal it chemically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro (Post 665553)
However, this was over a year ago, so if the formula changed, you might be affected by it. Last year your buddy was right, GE II "was" reef safe...

I got an email from GE and they said that it's not safe. Here is what Matthew Brown from GE had to say and I hope this helps other reefers to choose their silicone wisely in the future.

"Daniel,

Thanks for your email and I am sorry to hear about what happened. The Silicone II has a mold and mildew inhibitator in it and will never go away. Unfortunately, as long as the silicone II is in the tank, you run the risk of it killing the reef, etc. We would recommend removing all of the silicone to keep from that happening.

Matthew Brown
Customer Service Rep.
P - 877.943.7325
F - 304.746.1654"



Quote:

Originally Posted by asmodeus (Post 665554)
Wow man I'm so sorry to hear about this. Your tank was so flourishing with life

The new one was 1000 times better than the Solana.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamazter (Post 665555)
Do like 5% water changes every 2 days, and use alot of carbon.
This is a sad thing to see happen, if you cannot move your corals out of the tank try the advise above.


I have been doing 20% water changes every 12 hours and I am also running Purigen, ROWAphos and Kent Carbon.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonster (Post 665556)
I just used GE II about a month ago to build my new sump. I read there was issues when it was not left to cure long enough, I left mine for about 5 days until it didn't give off a smell anymore and have had no problems with it. There are two different types, one with mildew inhibitor and one without, I was told to make sure that I used the one without. Are you sure you used the one without the mildew inhibitors?

I guess you got lucky. I am glad that you didn't have any issues as I don't wish this to anybody.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandosh (Post 665600)
Both GE I and GE II have "kitchen & bath" (mildew inhibitors) and "window & door." The issue with GEII, from my understanding, is the fact that it is considered "neutral cure." It doesn't realease acids as it cures (so it doesn't stink like vinegar) and because of this it can leach substances (ammonia?) into the tank water for the first couple weeks.

I found this the hard way. Ammonia has been an issue since day one but it seems to be under control now. The plan is to take everything out to remove the silicone. I don't think I can do a few weeks of this, one week has been enough. I makes so sad to see corals that have been with me for several years slowly dying.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishytime (Post 665557)
Really sorry to hear about your losses.....I guess the moral of the story is.... Don't cheap out..... It's amazing to me how many folks look for cheap alternatives for things in this hobby..... Only silicone I've ever used is All Glass aquarium silicone..... Way more expensive than GE or any other brand, but at least I KNOW that it is aquarium safe...... GEs products are not formulated with the aquarium hobby in mind and small changes in formulation can obviously have a big effect..... Again sorry for your issues

Please think a bit more before posting. Do you really think that I would risk my corals in order to save a few bucks? I have invested so much money and time into my set up that saving a few bucks was not the reason to use GE Silicone II.

Money was never an issue. Let me tell you that I set up a whole new tank and spent lots of money just so I could give more room to my Elegance. I take pride in ALWAYS doing my best to provide the best environment for every fish or coral that I bring into my tank. Again, don't make assumptions or come to conclusions too quickly before you have all the facts.

Aquattro 12-29-2011 05:01 PM

I also didn't use it to save money, the GE I wasn't available in black, so I used the II. It cured for a few weeks before I added water, but the tank has been running for a year+ and doing well. Perhaps they have changed the formula since then and it contains the inhibitors mentioned.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro (Post 665610)
I also didn't use it to save money, the GE I wasn't available in black, so I used the II. It cured for a few weeks before I added water, but the tank has been running for a year+ and doing well. Perhaps they have changed the formula since then and it contains the inhibitors mentioned.

Your are right, I was told that the formula changes from time to time. It also seems that some people used it but they let it cure for weeks and that seemed to work well. I would not advise anybody to use this Silicone for reef purposes in the future.

bkelly 12-29-2011 05:12 PM

So do you guys think that a tank /sump that currently is running and has GE ii silicone in it needs to have the silicone removed because of the possibility of it leaching mold inhibitors?
My sump was re siliconed with the GEii ,the tank did crash but is healthy again and SPS are stable in it now (its been a few months) . my Duncan and one acan are still not fully open but all else is doing well.
thanks

bkelly 12-29-2011 05:16 PM

cold you PM me the GE reps email? The silicone i used was GEII window and door, like to ask him if mold inhibitors are in it? I had read this one was ok.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly (Post 665621)
cold you PM me the GE reps email? The silicone i used was GEII window and door, like to ask him if mold inhibitors are in it? I had read this one was ok.

This is the email but I think I already have your answer. Below is the email that I got from them. I believe your answer is there.

"Daniel,

Thanks for your email and I am sorry to hear about what happened. The Silicone II has a mold and mildew inhibitator in it and will never go away. Unfortunately, as long as the silicone II is in the tank, you run the risk of it killing the reef, etc. We would recommend removing all of the silicone to keep from that happening.

Matthew Brown
Customer Service Rep.
askgesa@momentive.com
P - 877.943.7325
F - 304.746.1654"

Aquattro 12-29-2011 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly (Post 665617)
So do you guys think that a tank /sump that currently is running and has GE ii silicone in it needs to have the silicone removed because of the possibility of it leaching mold inhibitors?

I'd say that if the tank is fine now, it should stay fine. I don't think chemicals hang around for a while and decide one day to leach (relative to this scenario).
As I mentioned, I used the GE II and had no problems, so I wouldn't now tear my tank apart to replace it :)
Based on the rep stating that the formula changes, I probably wouldn't use it again, just in case. Silicone I and GE 1200 are both safe options, so I'll use those on future tanks.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro (Post 665626)
I'd say that if the tank is fine now, it should stay fine. I don't think chemicals hang around for a while and decide one day to leach (relative to this scenario).
As I mentioned, I used the GE II and had no problems, so I wouldn't now tear my tank apart to replace it :)
Based on the rep stating that the formula changes, I probably wouldn't use it again, just in case. Silicone I and GE 1200 are both safe options, so I'll use those on future tanks.

I think you are right again:wink:. If you are not having any problems now, I doubt you'll have them later.

Aquattro, you mentioned that GE I and 1200 are reef safe. Do you know where I could buy some?

Finally, do you guys think that it's safe to use the sand that's currently in the tank again? It's practically new sand but I am not sure if it would absorb some of the toxic stuff that the silicone has released in the water.

bkelly 12-29-2011 05:36 PM

thanks I did find some posts saying the GE II (for Bath) was mildew containing , but the GEII (for door and window) -the Blue and white tube was ok from what i read may not have the mildew inhibiter.
However it still crashed my system.
Regardless, I am really sorry for your tank situation total know how it feels.
Thanks for the advice on leaving my sump in place now . Wouldnt want to do that job again.
Brent

no_bs 12-29-2011 05:38 PM

Oh Man, sorry to hear this. One of the few tanks that we have yet to see. What a shame. I to have used this silicone, but have left things for weeks before i used it, with no issues. As for your sand, wash the crap out it and you should be fine. Good luck, and hope things pull through.

bkelly 12-29-2011 05:41 PM

I left my rock and sand in after the crash, its fine now. ( over a month) it did take a while to stabalize and things kept dying for quite a while. However you guys are probably right the toxins break down or dissipate over time. Keep the carbon going and change the water lots.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera75 (Post 665629)
I think you are right again:wink:. If you are not having any problems now, I doubt you'll have them later.

Aquattro, you mentioned that GE I and 1200 are reef safe. Do you know where I could buy some?

Finally, do you guys think that it's safe to use the sand that's currently in the tank again? It's practically new sand but I am not sure if it would absorb some of the toxic stuff that the silicone has released in the water.


Aquattro 12-29-2011 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera75 (Post 665629)
Aquattro, you mentioned that GE I and 1200 are reef safe. Do you know where I could buy some?

GE I is available at most stores, but generally only in clear, white and brown. Black is tough to find.
GE 1200 is harder to find, although some people have posted places they've seen it. My LFS always carries a few tubes, and I can go to Sea Star aquariums and buy there in a pinch..

fishytime 12-29-2011 05:42 PM

Believe me, I do think about what i post.... More than you know ( for several reasons)...... I'm glad that cost wasn't a factor for you, but fact is, 90% of everyone tries to save here and there.....sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't........whether its cost or eastetics, when it comes to DIY, I feel it's best to go with something marketed for aquarium use......

bkelly 12-29-2011 05:56 PM

its frustrating when you do the research./ get advice but it turns out to be wrong. Its not a cheep hobby and the beauty in it and time invested, make it horrible to get knocked backwards.
Theres some wrong or dated information out there especially if the chemical manufactures are changing formulas.

ensquire 12-29-2011 06:02 PM

Just a suggestion, seeing that you live in Vancouver
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/mc...+10.3+oz..html

pinhead 12-29-2011 06:05 PM

I have used the GE I without any problems, because I think it says pure Silicon. I have also used Lepages from Canadian Tire and the Rona brand because do say aquarium safe.

Carrera75 12-29-2011 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensquire (Post 665652)
Just a suggestion, seeing that you live in Vancouver
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/mc...+10.3+oz..html

I am on my way out to the fish store but I'll go to the one on Kingsawy first. Boxing day sale is still on at this place and I am hoping to find the Silicone there and a bucket or two of IO salt that's selling for $29.99 right now :biggrin: I'll go to J$L if I can't find aquarium silicone at this other store. Oh, and I need black silicone.

Thanks for posting that info


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