Staining Tips?....
 

Well its finally come time to stain my homebuilt stand for my new 45 gallon tank. I know next to nothing about woodwork but im happy with the way its turned out so far. The stand is framed with 2x4s then covered with 1/2" Pine plywood all around with a 3/4" slab up on top. My first goal is to stain the two front swinging doors. I have used "glue on with a hot iron" pine stripping (sorry dont know the proper name) for the edges of the doors to make it look finished. I trimed off the excess then sanded it down with 220 sandpaper. Ive done a couple test pieces and found long strokes with a 2" brush seems to be working well in thin coats. I want to let it dry, sand again then give it one more coat. Im using a 2 in 1 stain that doesnt require a finish to be added after. However ive laid the door on its back, stained the front and sides and wanted to do the back side afterward once its dry, but I cant prevent the stain from dripping off the edges and staining part of the backside. This im sure is going to cause a problem when i stain the backside, the edges of the backside will appear way darker and uneven because the edges have already soaked up some of the stain. Is there any way to prevent this from happening? Or fixing it before i stain the backside? I was thinking about adding tape around the backside edges to hopefully prevent most of the stain from soaking up until i flip it over. Any tips are welcome :) Thanks!

Brush stain on, wipe stain off. The trick is to wipe it off and not let it soak in.

sponge works well too for geting the excess off , but like myka said just wipe off right away before it has a chance to soak in with a cloth:) ;)

i was told at rona to just brush it on and leave it which didnt make much sense to me :neutral: Ill give that a shot thanks :) maybe for the edges i can just use a sponge or something. Thanks guys :D

ive always stained with a soft cloth ive used a brush as well but i then wipe it with a cloth:):)

stain
 

use a stain pad instead of a brush.one way to stain it all at once is put some small eye hooks in the bottom of your door and hang it-letting you stain all sides at once and taking off any excess

Are you going to use any sort of sealer before you stain?

I dont believe so.. I was under the impression this 2in1 stain does the job of sealing as well. I did a water resistance test on a piece I already stained and it seemed to repel great. Way better than this exterior wood stain crap i had before that didnt show any wood grain at all. Is a pre sealer necessary?

What brand of stain? 2 -1 stains are just color and top coat protection not sealers. A sealer makes it easier to stain and sand out any drip spots like you are describing.

+1 on the sealer, if you don't use a conditioner on pine it will not stain evenly, personally I hate the 2 in 1 products, use a pre stain conditioner as per directions on the can, then stain and allow full 24 hours dry time prior to clear coating, light sanding between coats of clear should give a nice finish.

+1 to Mr fish..........and then, take your time and do several coats of clear.....this is where most people loose patience and only do one or two coats of clear.....more coats will give it that "deep, furniture quality" shine .....a couple coats will give it that "I made it myself" look and leave the finish more prone to salt damage......in fact, it might a good thing to consider a marine grade clear....

The brand of stain im using is 2in1 minwax stain with a polyurethane coating mixed in. I dont think im suppose to rub this stuff off after brushing and so far im having mixed results. The second coat went on ok but im getting tiny bubbles or pin sized hard spots, not sure what it is. I like how quick this is working but not 100% satisfied with the results. Maybe this is what you guys mean without using the conditioner. Is there a brand you guys would recommend if i try the conditioner/stain/ then clear? Thanks

I have used the same stuff on both my tanks so far. You need to use the MinWax Wood Conditioner, it's an absolute must & NOT the water based stuff. Apply the conditioner, let soak in for the recommended time then wipe off excess & let dry for time stated on can. Apply the first coat lightly, allow to dry for time on can and then rub down with a fine steel wool. Apply 2nd coat, let dry & rub down again. Applet 3rd coat and your done. I let each coat dry for at least 24 hrs.

And with that procedure you will have totally water proofed your stand.

Here's a couple pics of mine, made of Birch & Oak

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...d/100_3234.jpg
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...R/944576af.jpg

so one coat of the conditioner, then 3 coats of the minwax stain im currently using? Perfect, ill give that a shot tomorrow, thanks man :)

wow looks great! another question though, why steel wool instead of just 220 sandpaper?

You got it, apply the conditioner liberally & make sure not to use a cloth that will leave any lint, it's a biatch to get off after wards.

Minwax makes a good product, I just don't like the 2in1 products, in my experience you get the best finish by taking your time and following all the steps, any multi product is designed to reduce steps, thus saving time and ultimately the resulting finish suffers and it shows in the end result. Pine is one of the more difficult woods to get an even finish, any reputable paint store should be able to help you with product selection and application. As I mentioned in my original reply, pre-stain conditioner, then stain, allow at least 24 hrs dry time then coat with 3-4 coats of clear polyurethane allowing sufficient dry time with a light sanding between coats, follow manufacturer recommendations on product application, I do have a compressor and spray my clear coats giving me the best finish. Also make sure you have a warm dry area to apply your finish, this time of year the high humidity and cool temperatures wreak havoc with most finishes, slowing dry time and clouding finish clear coats.

Using an extra fine steel wool does not leave any grooves, it smooths out the surface & will create a nice top finish.

Allowing each coat to completely dry for at least 12 hrs with this 2 - 1 is the key. I have done both 2 -1 and clear coat polyurethane and have found that with the clear coat it can some time have a yellowish affect if there is just the littlest thing off ( temp, coat thickness or humidity ) with the 2 -1 I have never in countered such affect.

@Mrfish55

I plan on using this method next time and give it a try to compare. Ive just already bought the 2/1 stuff so ill stick to it for now :) Ill post some pics once i get some panels together.

Thanks all for the tips, building my stand in the next couple weeks and you guys had some great suggestions. Mav post back if you learn any tricks along the way.

Also, how much stain is expected to be used? HOw much are you using for your 45?

Will do. Ive bought a 940 something ml container. Ive done several test pieces and have hardly used any of it. I cant see it using much more than this if any but thats just a guess :)

well im still having trouble with the clear coat. Ive conditioned the wood first, then added the minwax 2 in 1. I still notice bubbles in the polyurethane so i wiped off the first coat with a rag. It looked great but didnt have to much of a shine (defiantly noticed how much easier it was to keep even after conditioning the wood) Tried to apply a second coat after sanding with fine steel wool and still, the clear keeps bubbling... I cant figure it out and its getting frustrating. Im going to try a different method of applying it tomorrow, either a sponge or finer brush...

Are you shaking the polyurethane before you use it? This will introduce small bubbles into it. Let the can sit and stir it with a stick to prevent air bubbles.

I found mine had little bubbles to when applied but they disappeared as it dried.

stain
 

do not use a brush or sponge-a brush will leave air bubbles and a sponge will leave sponge behind-use a staining pad for finishing-lightly sand in between coats

I used a 2" wide brush for stain with no issues, finished coat was smooth.

NEVER shake stain or polyurethane, only stir as shaking really doesn't do anything because all the good stuff sits at the bottom of the gallon, shaking will also cause air bubbles.

I'm on my phone so I don't have time to read the whole thread till I get home. But I've been dealing with painting/stain products for about 10 yrs now. So I hope I can help out in the thread!

awesome thatd be great thanks! Im obviously missing something here. Im not shaking the stain/poly, im stirring it before use with a wooden stick. Im only noticing the bubbles as i start spreading the stain/poly on the wood. I cant see air bubbles in the can or while stirring. Its as if the brush is the cause. Thats weird Grizz, because the bubbles on mine dry as they sit and give the finish a rough texture.

Well I tried various methods with no success. I got ****ed off and left it for a week. Friday i went back to rona and bought stain and polyurethane containers separately along with minwax brushes specifically for stain and poly. I conditioned the wood once again before adding the stain which (you guys were right) is a must. Then i applied two coats of stain using the method listed on the can. It worked GREAT. I then applied a coat of poly this morning, once again air bubbles appeared just as bad as the 2and1 i used previously. I thought for F sakes in my head, but as it dried the bubbles did get smaller. The poly is now dry and looks alot better than it did with the two in one. The finish is still alittle rough but with a quick sand and one more coat of poly im hoping it will lay even flatter. Ill try to get a pic and update after im finished, perhaps monday. So in my experience i wouldnt use the 2 in 1 again. Im not sure what i was doing wrong but i just couldnt get it together. I should say I am doing this inside (windows open) and my current tank is in the vicinity. I read air bubbles in poly could be caused by high humidity in the area of painting. This could be a factor..

funny you should mention that i was just about to ask are you staining outside or in the cold perhaps???:):)

Yeah it should be a summer project in the carport but i cant wait :)

How long did you let the stain sit before clear was applied? If you did 2 coats of stain you should wait 48-72 hrs before topcoat. Make sure you are carefull with sanding the clear, if you go thru to the stain it will show on the next coat, the first coat of clear is normally the most difficult as you can get airbubbles from the wood pores, subsequent coats should flow nicer, if you are not using water base poly you can also thin 10-20 % this will slow dry time and flow better giving bubbles time to off gas before the poly flashes. Pine is a pita to get consistent nice finish, took me a long time and lots of experimenting to find results I could live with, good luck and post up some pics.

Im using oil based. I let the stain dry for around 20 hrs or so. Ill leave it alittle longer on my next test piece. The can on the stain states its dry and ready for finish after 8 hrs from what i remember but it wouldnt hurt leaving it longer i suppose. If im STILL unable to get a nice finish ill try thinning with mineral spirits like you suggested. Thanks for the tips though :) I am so glad i started with test pieces or my stand would have looked like it was built on the red green show :P

Well I have another update, i dont want to milk this thread dry but hopefully this will help someone else having the same issues i had. Its been frustrating as hell.

I went to rona and picked up some 3" foam brushes. I once again tried to put down another layer of poly with little hope it would work out but i was mistaking. I dipped the brush in 1/2" or so and started to brush very slowly using just the tip of the brush and to my amazement it sat down with little to no bubbles at all. There are small fisheyes that are currently noticeable but i think it may be because of how uneven my previously layers were due to the bubbles popping and leaving craters. I also found the foam brush to be alot easier to maintain a THIN coat evenly across the surface. Im very excited and going to try to mimic a stand door tomorrow from start to finish before moving onto the actual stand.

Saying this I believe the 2in1 probably would have worked out for me if i would have started with the foam brush from square one. However using a stain then poly gave me a completely different look which i actually like alot better. The contrast of the grain is much stronger which im assuming is due to the stain penetrating the wood deeper with 2 steps rather than sealing and staining the wood in one step with the 2 in 1.

Anyway here is what ive learnt so far.

- Sand the panels with the grain of the wood using 220 followed by 400
- Make absolutely sure the surface is free of debris.
- Stain with a bristle brush, keep the coat thin because you'll be amazed at how much you'll end up wiping off after 10 - 15 mins.
- Scuff the surface with fine steel wool and repeat stain procedure until your happy with the darkness of the wood. Make sure to keep surface clean
- Apply the poly with a foam brush, not only did i find this better in every aspect (keeping a thin layer, no air bubbles, more evenly distributed) they are also a buck and a half compared to the 20 dollar bristle brush i bought. Throw them out after use and start fresh with another one.
- After each coat i also wiped the surface down with a rag and mineral spirits, this seemed to work well for me in helping keep the dust away

Sorry no pics yet, i keep forgetting to buy some AA's. Thanks for the help everyone :)